Passenger Trains > Iowa Pacific: Saratoga & North Creek loses $1M+/yr.

Railroad losing $1 million plus annually on Warren County line
Glen Falls Post-Star
Mar. 31, 2015

> QUEENSBURY | Saratoga & North Creek Railway is losing at least a
> million dollars annually on its local operations, and the company
> wants to sell a section of track and hopes to get up to $5 million
> in funding for track repairs...
>
> ...David Simpson, Iowa Pacific Holdings LLC’s director of government
> affairs and strategic initiatives, told county supervisors the
> company would like to sell the 29.7-mile stretch of railroad tracks
> from North Creek to Tahawus, which it bought in 2011, so it could be
> owned by the “public” as the stretch of rails to the south is.
>
> After a county Public Works Committee meeting, Simpson said the
> company would like to see Warren County, or a railroad authority of
> which the county would be a part, purchase the northern spur for
> $1.5 million. The company has not said how much it paid for the
> spur.
>
> The tracks sat unused for 30 years until the rail company made
> $500,000 worth of repairs and resumed occasional freight train
> traffic there in 2012.
>
> Simpson said that stretch of railway and crossings needs about $5
> million worth of work to handle trains that would remove stone
> tailings from the closed NL Industries mines in Tahawus. He said
> there is a market for the stone, for use as a construction aggregate,
> and the rail company would like to remove 1.5 million to 2 million
> tons a year, carrying it to barges in the port of Albany to be
> shipped south to New York City. There is enough material to last
> through 20 years of removal at that rate, Simpson added.
>
> Simpson said state economic development funding could be sought to
> pay for the repairs. That application, though, would be complicated
> because the line passes through three counties — Warren, Essex and
> Hamilton — and the northern counties are in a different economic
> development zone than Warren County, Simpson said.
>
> Revenue from passenger traffic would need to more than double to get
> to the break-even point, Simpson noted. “It’s really tough to do it
> on passenger service alone,” he said.
>
> Improving those tracks could also allow tourist trains to go north
> of North Creek, which could open up opportunities for hikers and
> through the First Wilderness Corridor program.
>
> Saratoga & North Creek Railway has a contract to operate trains on
> the tracks, owned by Warren County and the town of Corinth, through
> June 2016. Simpson said the company was not asking to moderate the
> terms of the contract, which provides revenue to Warren County based
> on ticket sales and freight traffic, but added, “We really need a
> game plan by the end of the year.”

Full story:

Railroad losing $1 million plus annually on Warren County line



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/15 14:19 by GenePoon.

The far northern countries have been in the economic doldrums for decades. This seems like a good opportunity to remove industrial mill waste, and provide jobs in an area which could use many.

Rail (S&NC to D&H) to barge, and on to NYC

I understood the enviros opposed the original reopening of that part of the line and wanted it to be "rails to trails." If so, I expect they will oppose this as well.

When I worked for NWA during the airline bad years, we were losing over 1M per day.

Need to provide "essential service"

Are there any rich ppl still taking the LIRR to Montauk in the summer in parlor cars or sleepers?

Wud they be interested in travelling on a parlor car from NYC to the finger lakes.  A thru car out on fri
and back on sunday?    Of course, Amtks "Can't do" attitude wudnt help.

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I worked for NWA during the airline bad
> years, we were losing over 1M per day.
>
> Need to provide "essential service"
>
> Are there any rich ppl still taking the LIRR to
> Montauk in the summer in parlor cars or sleepers?
>
> Wud they be interested in travelling on a parlor
> car from NYC to the finger lakes.  A thru car out
> on fri
> and back on sunday?    Of course, Amtks "Can't
> do" attitude wudnt help.

The Long Island Rail Road runs "Cannonball Express service" from NY Penn to the Hamptons on Fridays, with return on Sunday evening. There are reserved service cars with steward service, I believe, as well as coaches.  No sleepers, though.

Other premium services include Hampton Jitney (deluxe motor coach service with beverages), and several private helicopter lines. The helicopters, in particular, really irritate the zillionaires who already live there.

=================
There are many people who head up to the Berkshires on MetroNorth each Thursday and Friday, and others who take the Ethan Allen etc on Amtrak. It often sells out on Summer Fridays, from what I'm told.

Thread should be titled: Iowa Pacific asks NY Goverment for a bailout after it can't run its allegedly highly profitable Saratoga & North Creek passenger service at a profit!!!

rombout137 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thread should be titled: Iowa Pacific asks NY
> Goverment for a bailout after it can't run its
> allegedly highly profitable Saratoga & North Creek
> passenger service at a profit!!!

I don't recall anyone asking for a handout/bailout for anything. Just as stated that they would like to sell 29.7 miles of the line to the county of which they would then have ownership in return.
In a handout/bailout the person, business, county, state walk away with nothing in return unless there were prior stipulations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/15 06:50 by UPRR3985.

Cumbresfan Wrote:
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> I understood the enviros opposed the original
> reopening of that part of the line and wanted it
> to be "rails to trails." If so, I expect they will
> oppose this as well.


That's been more of an issue with the Adirondack Scenic than with S&NC.


Sorry to hear they're losing money on that route.  It has been a classy operation, from both a railfan perspective and the general public.


How anybody can object to making beneficial use out of millions of tons of mine waste is beyond me.

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How anybody can object to making beneficial use
> out of millions of tons of mine waste is beyond
> me.


If hauling it out by train means they can't hike and bike on the route, for free...