Passenger Trains > Accountability, and all that stuff

I had an interesting opportunity yesterday to see how accountability plays out in another section of the passenger transportation industry. The airlines. This is what happens when somebody signs off on work that was apparently not done.

My flight was scheduled to leave Newark around 9.30am, and was a full flight. The inbound flight from Chicago was to arrive a little earlier, with a quick turn. About 8.45, the gate attendant began the "full flight, etc" message, adding there were several oversold seats. Her initial offer was $300 voucher, lunch, and a confirmed seat on a flight three hours later. By 9, the voucher was up to $500, plus lunch. She got her volunteers  at that level.

I was close enough to hear the backstory as the incoming pilot, flight attendant, etc got on the phone with somebody up high. Two seats were deemed not safe, and couldn't be used on their flight, and now on ours.

Apparently the bad seats (two of them) were reported the previous day. They were supposed to have been fixed over night, and the pilot had a signed work ticket that they were. But they weren't, and two passengers had to be reseated, forcing an involuntary compensation to two other passengers who were bumped off the plane in Chicago. And two more on our flight. The outbound leg of our flight from Florida didn't look full, but it would probably be later in the day, and at least a thousand bucks in vouchers before they could even get a wrench on the seats.

Whoever was on the other end of that phone call was clearly angry. And it appeared the pilot and flight attendant would be filing another report.  I suspect whoever signed off on work not properly done and tested would have a whole lot of explaining to do.

(on my flight back today, the occupied seat next to mine wouldn't rise to its full and upright position. one FA said to the other that he'd report it. This was an A320, the other aircraft was a 737-800)

I was recently on a flight back from the West Coast (in first class) and the seat kept "fully reclining." The Flight Attendant said the seat appeared to be broke. I said - yes it is. It was a full flight. With a bad back - I would have sat ANYWHERE to avoid a seat that kept fully reclining. Then it turns out that for dinner there was only one option because they forgot to fully load up the plane with selections etc. After one hour in flight The FA gave me a rolled blanket because she could tell I was having issues. I told her you are going to have to find at least five more to get me in some position to be halfway comfortable for this five plus hour flight. Called the airline after getting off the plane and all they would offer me were "points." I am not a frequent flyer so the points are useless to me. After two months of going back and forth with the airline, I just gave up.

< I suspect whoever signed off on work not properly done and tested would have a whole lot of explaining to do. >

Imagine that happening when a train with a defect leaves Chicago with the same reported defect as inbound . Hah.

I am sure all things are legitamate gripes, but I have to chuckle at the things we, as Americans, determine are problems in this age of luxury.
Can you imagine someone on an 1880's train holding up the depature over bad seats? Can you envision the look on the face of a 1935 passenger who's about the spend 4 days sleeping in a Pullman berth from NYC to LA listening to someone complain beacuse their seat-back is reclining all the way as a jet aircraft takes them coast to coast in 5 hours??

I'm a fan of Adam Carolla's podcast and he frequently refers to these things as "Rich, White-Guy problems".

Danny Harmon
Tampa

It is now an issue since school buses are luxurious compared to an airplane. To call an ariline a flying Greyound is an insult to Greyhound.

Many fist fights break out because someone reclines their seat. There is simply no room for error any longer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/15 08:31 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> < I suspect whoever signed off on work not
> properly done and tested would have a whole lot of
> explaining to do. >
>
> Imagine that happening when a train with a defect
> leaves Chicago with the same reported defect as
> inbound . Hah.

Happens all the time on CN.  "defect in, defect out".      Doug

Narr8rdanny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sure all things are legitamate gripes, but I
> have to chuckle at the things we, as Americans,
> determine are problems in this age of luxury.
> Can you imagine someone on an 1880's train holding
> up the depature over bad seats? Can you envision
> the look on the face of a 1935 passenger who's
> about the spend 4 days sleeping in a Pullman berth
> from NYC to LA (snip)

Noted, but somebody from Santa Fe management would be in the station with a baseball bat looking for the guy who signed off on a bad ordered car that was stuck in a train, anyway.

The New York Central was legendary for calling in a superintendent if the Century lost time on his division. Or if the assigned locomotive wasn't ready, wan't properly serviced, etc. And if the super got a kick in the rear, you know the round house foreman would be shoveling ash as his next job...

I have been flying a lot lately .

You get what you pay for.

Spirit it was no room, but 100 bucks round trip sfo to dallas. Damn cheap. Virgin was the best, but also most expensive.


Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is now an issue since school buses are
> luxurious compared to an airplanes. To call an
> ariline a flying Greyound is an insult to
> Greyhound.
>
> Many fist fight break out because someone reclined
> their seat. There is simply no room for error any
> longer.

Posted from Android

In attempting to get to ABQ for the AAPRCO special, I discovered how messed up the airline industry can be at times. UA cancelled my nonstop flight from LAX due to "no crew" and rebooked me on another UA flight to PHX, connecting to a US Airways flight to ABQ. Connecting between those two carriers at PHX is a joke. UA's terminal is not served by the inter-terminal shuttle train -- I had to make a long walk outdoors (thankfully not in 100+ degree heat) and go through security again only to discover my connecting flight was one hour forty minutes late! Reason enough to hoist a few beers at a watering hole in Terminal 4.  Compared to my original arrival time, I made it to ABQ a little over five hours "off the advertised", as DPM used to say.

There were quite a few irate passengers at LAX when the cancellation, and its cause, was announced.  There were some foreigners among us.  I don't speak German but I think I heard some German cuss words.

When I was being re-booked, I suggested to the agent an itinerary involving Southwest Airlines.  As it turns out, United and Southwest do not have a reciprocal ticketing agreement between them, even in circumstances such as this that involved cancelled flights.  As far as United Airlines is concerned, Southwest Airlines doesn't exist.

So where was the accountability?  Is crew staffing too complicated for the airline industry these days?

Will any heads roll?  I doubt it.  That would contribute to a hostile work environment.   

Maybe this explains why ridership is up at Amtrak.

When it comes to travel these days, choose your poison and compare if your experience is as horrific as what Jack Lemmon and Sandy Dennis experienced in that classic movie The Out Of Towners.

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When it comes to travel these days, choose your
> poison and compare if your experience is as
> horrific as what Jack Lemmon and Sandy Dennis
> experienced in that classic movie The Out Of
> Towners.

You probably should have just taken Amtrak.  The midnight ride across the Needles sub is delightful, you should experience it.  :-)

US Airways specializes in creating "never again" passengers. I travel regularly, and I always avoid them if I can.

I'm sorry that the original UA passengers were inconvenienced. Extra boards on many airlines, and airline crew management is run as tightly as it is on the freight railroads. But the airlines are very aware of the federal penalties, so they'll cancel flights much more frequently than they used to

EDITED for typo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/15 14:03 by Lackawanna484.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is now an issue since school buses are
> luxurious compared to an airplane. To call an
> ariline a flying Greyound is an insult to
> Greyhound.
>
> Many fist fights break out because someone
> reclines their seat. There is simply no room for
> error any longer.

Although those situations do occur, I am not convinced such behavior is the norm.  Because of the media stories, and due to the fact that both my wife and I have some issues keeping the seats on airliners completely "un" reclined due to back issues, we always say something to the passengers behind us before reclining (plus, we don't recline them all the way back anyway).  Granted, it's only been a handful of flights, less than 10 each over the past year or so, but not one passenger has had even the slightest issue with it.  Most laugh about it.  Perhaps it would be different in some cases if we did not say something first, I don't know.  On the one hand, I don't like being packed in like sardines, but on the other hand, I understand the trade offs one has to deal with for cheap fares.  If the fares are not an issue, there is almost always an alternative on every airplane. 

On my last trip, I was surprised by the extremely poor condition of one of the USAir A320 aircraft between Phoenix and Tampa.  It was so dirty I could hardly believe it.  I don't mean "everyday" dirty.....it was grimy, worn in, abused dirty.  The panels around the windows appeared to be smeared with grease or something.  It looked like the plane had been used to ferry workers after shifts in a mine or factory or something.  The leather seats were fraying at the seams and the leather was so thin and cracked that the padding under the covering was about to to break through.  The row of seats in front of me tilted by about 2 or 3 inches downward between the window and the aisle.  My entire row did not tilt, by my individual seat was leaning to the right.  This airplane had seen some serious use.  I am guessing it had been used for troop transport, but that is just a guess.   

OliveHeights Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You probably should have just taken Amtrak.  The
> midnight ride across the Needles sub is
> delightful, you should experience it.  :-)

Oh, if you only knew how many times I've ridden across that subdivision!

My Adventure Trying To Get To ABQ on Untied Airlines . . . The Rest Of The Story 

I forgot to mention these tidbits in my earlier post . . .  

So after they announced that my flight was cancelled due to "no crew" they also announced that they would be re-booking us at the gate podium or we could schlepp down a few gates to one of their customer service centers that was staffed by two employees to achieve the same thing.  I, along with quite a few other passengers, decided to go to the customer service center because the gate podium was quickly mobbed by a lot of our fellow passengers.  As I was waiting my turn in line at the customer service center I also got on my cell phone and called UA's reservations bureau.  I figured with the sudden high demand for space to ABQ, the sooner I could get something booked, the better.  Much to my alarm, the res agent said everything was already booked for the balance of that day and the soonest they could get me to ABQ was Sunday morning.  That was totally unacceptable because the AAPRCO special train was going to depart Sunday morning at 0800 hours.  That's when I called Southwest Airlines and they were able to book me on an itinerary that would get me to ABQ at about 2300 hours Saturday night.  Southwest quoted me a last-minute "walk up" fare of $160.00 or some such that I thought, although a little steep, would be well worth it if it would allow me to catch the train.  When it was my turn at the counter, that's when I told the clerk about the Southwest itinerary I just booked and that's when she told me that UA and Southwest did not have a reciprocal ticketing agreement.  That's when I said to her, "So as far as United Airlines is concerned, Southwest Airlines does not exist."  I stormed off and started to make my way over to Southwest Airlines' terminal. 

So even though Southwest was offering something that United could not match (getting me to ABQ Saturday night) United wanted to have me sit around LAX until the following morning and make an attempt at getting to ABQ then.  Oh, and I would have missed the AAPRCO train, too.  I'm curious whether UA would have footed the bill for a hotel room and meal and taxi expenses had I been forced to spend Saturday night in LA. 

So this is "customer service"?  This is looking out for what's in the best interest of the customer?  Puhleeeeze.   

As it turned out, when I got down near the ticketing counter for UA at street level, I saw a couple of ticket agents standing around basically twiddling their thumbs.  I figured I'd approach them and give UA one more chance at getting me to ABQ Saturday night so I could make my train connection.  This would also save me from having to shell out some much needed cash for a ticket on Southwest.   Amazingly enough, after the agent plinked away on his computer terminal for about ten minutes (I was anxiously calculating if I still had time to "abort" and dash over to Southwest), he was able to come up with an itinerary that would get me to ABQ later that night.  It involved a connection to US Airways at PHX that I would have to accomplish within about one hour.  Not an easy task when your arriving flight docks at one extreme of the PHX airport complex and your connecting flight is at the other extreme, including having to go through security once again. The fact that my US Airways connecting flight was about 90 minutes late worked to my advantage.  I was able to hoist a couple of beers at a watering hole in Terminal 4. 

The story has a happy ending.  I made it to ABQ Saturday night and was able to catch the AAPRCO special the following morning.  But the "anxiety quotient" was quite high.    

This also proves that it helps to travel with carry-on baggage only, which I did.   



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/15 05:46 by CA_Sou_MA_Agent.