Passenger Trains > MSNBC: Mika takes on Senator Thune

MSNBC's Mika Brezinski took on Senator John Thune (R-SD) this morning over the Amtrak Philadelphia derailment. Specifically why the Congress didn't hold Amtrak's feet to the fire for failing to manage the ATC coding at Frankford, eastbound. Mr Thune is head of the Senate committee which oversees commerce and Amtrak.

Mr Thune is the son and grandson of railway men, and he knew his Positive Train Control, in detail. But he was clearly lost on ATC. Didn't understand it at all, and Mika tried three ways of asking why Amtrak could fix it in two days, but leave it unfixed for decades. Each time, Thune responded with "bandwidth, intertain operability, sensors, etc" even mentioned ACSES. But he didn't know or recognize ATC.  I thought she was going to say "Just tell me, you don't know what ATC is do you?" but she didn't.

Should be on U tube and on the MSNBC site later



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/15 06:39 by Lackawanna484.

We all know Amtrak has been having to spend its resources in corralling the $10 hamburgers in the dining car.

Wasnt there a big news release about how they needed to remove fake flowers from all of the dining car tables?   How much resources did Amtrak have to expend to address THAT issue?

I don't get it, a senator from South Dakota is supposed to know the details of NEC wiring.  What codes are enforced and where???

Bob
 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MSNBC's Mika Brezinski took on Senator John Thune
> (R-SD) this morning over the Amtrak Philadelphia
> derailment. Specifically why the Congress didn't
> hold Amtrak's feet to the fire for failing to
> manage the ATC coding at Frankford, eastbound. Mr
> Thune is head of the Senate committee which
> oversees commerce and Amtrak.
>
> Mr Thune is the son and grandson of railway men,
> and he knew his Positive Train Control, in detail.
> But he was clearly lost on ATC. Didn't understand
> it at all, and Mika tried three ways of asking why
> Amtrak could fix it in two days, but leave it
> unfixed for decades. Each time, Thune responded
> with "bandwidth, intertain operability, sensors,
> etc" even mentioned ACSES. But he didn't know or
> recognize ATC.  I thought she was going to say
> "Just tell me, you don't know what ATC is do you?"
> but she didn't.
>
> Should be on U tube and on the MSNBC site later

Here’s the interview.

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/thune--most-gopers-will-support-trade-agreement-448157763838

Amtrak questions start at 4:00 into the clip.

Yes Sen. Thune obviously does not know ATC from PTC.  At any attempt to discuss ATC he circles right around to PTC.  Yes, you want to shout at the  screen  "Just tell me, you don't know what ATC is do you?" LOL.

Even Senator Toomey from eastern Pennsylvania was trying to postpone PTC, admitted he though only thought of SEPTA, not Amtrak, and doesn't understand ATC either.

the whole reasoning for the eb CLEAR non restricting signal aspect for Frankford curve and other curves just like it was "TIME" ... according to an Amtrak spokesman interviewed on scene at the derailment ... Amtrak basically rolled the dice ... his term was "used risk management" to squeese out every second of max authorized speed to keep as tight a schedule as possible ...

wb the signals between Bridesburg and Tacony (which can be seen from I-95) display an Advance Approach indication (flashing approach indication) for wb trains ... this gets the train's speed down in the next 2 miles by the time it reaches the next wb signal at Ford at Church St (former Ford Interlocking home signal) while braking to 80mph for Acela/60mph for the reverse curve at Ford still braking for the 60mph Acela/50mph speed restriction for Frankford curve ...

now let's take the wb approach to the curve at Girard where the trains duck in the hole adjacent to the Zoo parking lot ...

on #3 track trains approach Mantua (33rd St) MP87.2 at 80mph Acela/70mph Regional and are braking for the 60mph speed limit between Mantua and Girard Ave UG Bridge while still braking for the 30mph speed limit between Girard Ave UG Bridge and Zoo Int Station MP88 (in the hole where the long curved #20 3 power switch machine divider switch is located where #3 track Septa inbound diverges) ... all under a CLEAR indication ...

Posted from Android

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the whole reasoning for the eb CLEAR non
> restricting signal aspect for Frankford curve and
> other curves just like it was "TIME" ... according
> to an Amtrak spokesman interviewed on scene at the
> derailment ... Amtrak basically rolled the dice
> ... his term was "used risk management" to squeese
> out every second of max authorized speed to keep
> as tight a schedule as possible ...
>
> wb the signals between Bridesburg and Tacony
> (which can be seen from I-95) display an Advance
> Approach indication (flashing approach indication)
> for wb trains ... this gets the train's speed down
> in the next 2 miles by the time it reaches the
> next wb signal at Ford at Church St (former Ford
> Interlocking home signal) while braking to 80mph
> for Acela/60mph for the reverse curve at Ford
> still braking for the 60mph Acela/50mph speed
> restriction for Frankford curve ...
>
> now let's take the wb approach to the curve at
> Girard where the trains duck in the hole adjacent
> to the Zoo parking lot ...
>
> on #3 track trains approach Mantua (33rd St)
> MP87.2 at 80mph Acela/70mph Regional and are
> braking for the 60mph speed limit between Mantua
> and Girard Ave UG Bridge while still braking for
> the 30mph speed limit between Girard Ave UG Bridge
> and Zoo Int Station MP88 (in the hole where the
> long curved #20 3 power switch machine divider
> switch is located where #3 track Septa inbound
> diverges) ... all under a CLEAR indication ...

The home signals at Zoo can only display an Approach aspect, since 1 and 4 River diverge through #15 turnouts.  The through route is to 2 and 3 Suburban.

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out_Of_Service Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > the whole reasoning for the eb CLEAR non
> > restricting signal aspect for Frankford curve
> and
> > other curves just like it was "TIME" ...
> according
> > to an Amtrak spokesman interviewed on scene at
> the
> > derailment ... Amtrak basically rolled the dice
> > ... his term was "used risk management" to
> squeese
> > out every second of max authorized speed to
> keep
> > as tight a schedule as possible ...
> >
> > wb the signals between Bridesburg and Tacony
> > (which can be seen from I-95) display an
> Advance
> > Approach indication (flashing approach
> indication)
> > for wb trains ... this gets the train's speed
> down
> > in the next 2 miles by the time it reaches the
> > next wb signal at Ford at Church St (former
> Ford
> > Interlocking home signal) while braking to
> 80mph
> > for Acela/60mph for the reverse curve at Ford
> > still braking for the 60mph Acela/50mph speed
> > restriction for Frankford curve ...
> >
> > now let's take the wb approach to the curve at
> > Girard where the trains duck in the hole
> adjacent
> > to the Zoo parking lot ...
> >
> > on #3 track trains approach Mantua (33rd St)
> > MP87.2 at 80mph Acela/70mph Regional and are
> > braking for the 60mph speed limit between
> Mantua
> > and Girard Ave UG Bridge while still braking
> for
> > the 30mph speed limit between Girard Ave UG
> Bridge
> > and Zoo Int Station MP88 (in the hole where the
> > long curved #20 3 power switch machine divider
> > switch is located where #3 track Septa inbound
> > diverges) ... all under a CLEAR indication ...
>
> The home signals at Zoo can only display an
> Approach aspect, since 1 and 4 River diverge
> through #15 turnouts.  The through route is to 2
> and 3 Suburban.

Andrew are we speaking of the same thing ... the route at Mantua was reconfigured years ago to show Clear for wb trains going #3 to 4 River over 34 switch a #15 switch straight point move ... and the signal at Girard (adjacent to Zoo parking lot as trains head into the hole) displays Clear for wb trains routed 4 River to 4 River over #84 switch which is a #20 curved switch which is 30mph speed restricted ... ZOO has no associated switches for the NEC mainline ...

btw for FYI 84 switch ("the hole switch" as it is referred to) is a very unique turnout that has an specially designed elongated switch point and stock rail on the high side normal position with 3 switch machines and specially designed curved guardrails unique for that switch at that location ... when trains ard running normal 84 switch at Girard and 34 switch at Mantua see every single wb passenger train on the NEC ...

for the life of me tho I never knew why the company when upgrading the switch with new steel and switch cross members they stuck with the wood crosstimbers instead of installing concrete cross members ... I don't know if it was a manufacturing issue or just a railroad decision ...

Posted from Android



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/15 12:32 by Out_Of_Service.

So I read all these versions of the signals and a senator is supposed to know how Amtrak signals and codes are set up all over the NEC. 

Bob

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I read all these versions of the signals and a
> senator is supposed to know how Amtrak signals and
> codes are set up all over the NEC. 
>
> Bob

Mika's point was that the ATC has been in place for decades, and it was obvious the senator (probably any senator) didn't know that.  And it could have been changed in a few hours to improve safety. And it was, after the fact.

Mr Thune conveyed the impression, to me at least, that the NEC was unsignalled, and the new PTC would take care of that.

 ATC and PTC are not the same thing .....

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't get it, a senator from South Dakota is
> supposed to know the details of NEC wiring.  What
> codes are enforced and where???
>
> Bob
>  

You're right Bob, "a senator from South Dakota is (NOT) supposed to know the details of NEC wiring and what codes are enforced and where???", but Thune is a lot more than a regular senator. Remember, he is and has been intimately involved with the rail industry, especially when he was in between political gigs a decade ago, read this for starters:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702110.html  Thune was paid big bucks by Kevin Schieffer to help him make the DM&E into the next big thing in the Powder River Basin by accessing federal dollars in the same FRA program that Metro North and the Long Island are now using to pay for their PTC installations, RRIF, a program most conservatives railed against for decades.

I think an argument could be made that neither Senator Thune nor Secretary Foxx should know the details of NEC wiring codes (or FAA protocols on pilot training, long distance bus operations, etc) which fall broadly under their review.  But, it isn't unreasonable that their army of staff have experts who know and are confident that the protocols are appropriate and accurate.

I watched both interviews, and it seemed pretty obvious both men were prepped to say PTC is the right answer. We've had setbacks, but we're on top of this. Trust us, etc.  When asked about today, and the deficiencies, they were deer in the headlights.

Like Ray LaHood when Congress asked about the horrible schedules and low pay for the two pilots on the Continental flight which crashed in Buffalo. The department had seen multiple reports about work schedules, pilots sleeping in cars, etc for years and passed over new rules when industry objected. Whe called on it, he organized a new committee to look into the matter...