Passenger Trains > Unions Say Amtrak Should Put Second Crew Member In Locomotives

no surprise here

excerpt from article:

"Train engineer Brandon Bostian was alone at the controls last week when an Amtrak commuter train derailed in Philadelphia, killing eight people and injuring more than 200 others. Now, the union for Amtrak’s locomotive engineers is urging the rail service to put a second crew member in the control cab of trains traveling along the Northeast Corridor line."

full article here :

http://www.ibtimes.com/amtrak-crash-philadelphia-unions-say-amtrak-should-put-second-crew-member-locomotives-1929899

Posted from Android

Of course they do.  This is why unionized workers are at 7% and falling.

"WORKERS WORLD" link

mbrotzman Wrote:
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> Of course they do.  This is why unionized workers are at 7% and falling.

The unions "job" is to represent their members, protect their interests and try to expand their membership.  
This is a good example of them doing just that.  :-)

mbrotzman Wrote:
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> Of course they do.  This is why unionized workers
> are at 7% and falling.
Union jobs are falling partially due to right to work laws,  partially due to our desire for "cheap plastic crap made in China" (and elsewhere is Asia) by workers making 10 cents an hour in sweatshops, and partially due to automation. Maybe your job will be next.

And, until the Neanderthals stop criticizing the unions for voicing a legitimate safety concern the wrecks will continue. Airlines have two people in the cockpit. Two sets of eyes and two minds are always safer than one. Case closed.

Funny how people enjoy a 40 hour work week, paid vacations, employer health care, etc and then bash unions that were responsible for worker benefits to begin with.

rfprr

Yes!

John Webb
Trinidad, CA

All this talk about safety, death, etc since the Amtrak crash... But what really gets my shorts in a bunch, since the Amtrak accident in Philly, there must have been over 700 highway deaths on US roads!!!!   Where is the outrage there?  

My view is that there are better ways to spend money for safety than to have an exta person riding in thousands of trains just in case. This is not anti union.
Longer Amtrak runs have the second crew member.

The comparison to an airliner is absurd on the face of it but could point out the recent crash had two crew members.  Also the Air France crash had two and then three crew members but they were unable to adjust for the mechanical failure.  Who knows what happened to the Malasia plane?

Bob Jordan



 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/15 10:13 by robj.

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My view is that there are better ways to spend
> money for safety than to have an exta person
> riding in thousands of trains just in case. This
> is not anti union.
> Longer Amtrak runs have the second crew member.
>
> The comparison to an airliner is absurd on the
> face of it but could point out the recent crash
> had two crew members.  Also the Air France crash
> had two and then three crew members but they were
> unable to adjust for the mechanical failure.  Who
> knows what happened to the Malasia plane?
>
> Bob Jordan
>
>100% agreed.  Can we not agree that there is no 100% foolproof method to avoid human error?
And this is not an anti-union post.
>
>

4489 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> robj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My view is that there are better ways to spend
> > money for safety than to have an exta person
> > riding in thousands of trains just in case.
> This
> > is not anti union.
> > Longer Amtrak runs have the second crew member.
> >
> > The comparison to an airliner is absurd on the
> > face of it but could point out the recent crash
> > had two crew members.  Also the Air France
> crash
> > had two and then three crew members but they
> were
> > unable to adjust for the mechanical failure. 
> Who
> > knows what happened to the Malasia plane?
> >
> > Bob Jordan
> >
> >100% agreed.  Can we not agree that there is no
> 100% foolproof method to avoid human error?
> And this is not an anti-union post.
> >
> >
Perhaps zero crew members in the cab is best.

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My view is that there are better ways to spend
> money for safety than to have an exta person
> riding in thousands of trains just in case. This
> is not anti union.
> Longer Amtrak runs have the second crew member.
>
> The comparison to an airliner is absurd on the
> face of it but could point out the recent crash
> had two crew members.  Also the Air France crash
> had two and then three crew members but they were
> unable to adjust for the mechanical failure.  Who
> knows what happened to the Malasia plane?
>
> Bob Jordan
>
>
>
How many freight train head-ons and run signals happen with two or three crew members in the front? Sometimes a second person is good if they stay awake and pay attention most of the time the conductors on freights are passed out.  

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> Perhaps zero crew members in the cab is best.
 
Google should start work on a robo-loco after their robo-car hits the retail market.

See Holman Jenkins' column in the WSJ May 19 "How Congress Railroaded the Railroads".   Good point that government is the problem with the antiquated/yet to be invented radio frequency based ASC system the government is requiring.  Makes a good point about GPS and smart phone technology.   Why not have the conductor be equipped with a GPS enabled smart phone with speed alarms?  He can then call and warn the engineer. Union idea of a second engineer accomplishes little other than expanding the union's power base. 

A second person can even be a distraction.  Adding a second person to NEC trains would make
them totally uneconomical and do nothing to improve safety expecially when ACSES is in effect
on the entire NEC.

bjackson30303 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See Holman Jenkins' column in the WSJ May 19 "How
> Congress Railroaded the Railroads".   Good point
> that government is the problem with the
> antiquated/yet to be invented radio frequency
> based ASC system the government is requiring. 
> Makes a good point about GPS and smart phone
> technology.   Why not have the conductor be
> equipped with a GPS enabled smart phone with speed
> alarms?  He can then call and warn the engineer.
> Union idea of a second engineer accomplishes
> little other than expanding the union's power
> base. 

I realize it not that simple but my TomTom seems to tell me pretty accurately, my speed, speed limit of the road I am on and where I am.
Lot more too it of course but......

Bob

All that occurs to me is that if tha case for second crew member up front in trains was such an open and shut caser, then most of the world would not be operating corridor trains with single crew all over the place. I do not think there is anything specially dumber about the US that would make it a special case to require a second person for short runs like on the NEC.

And no this is not an anti-union post at all. It is just the way it is. Hard to turn back the clock.

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps zero crew members in the cab is best.
>  
> Google should start work on a robo-loco after
> their robo-car hits the retail market.

i thought i saw or read somewhere that the blokes from down unda were working on RUTs, Remote Unmanned Trains ... they have been running trains with one man crews for quite some time now ... i know they run over 2 mile ore trains ... i'm not sure if they have a 2 man crew requirement for certain length trains with either a untility shadow man or 2nd man in the cab ...

Posted from Android

Nothing can be done to provide 100% assurance that a train will be operated accident free; no system, not even a second person.

Back around 1947, a suicidal engineer on the Monon intentionally crashed his train into the depot at Monon, IN. He died in the crash. There was at least one other person, the fireman, with him in the cab.

In 2006, an airline airplane, with a pilot and a co-pilot, took off from Lexington,KY on the wrong runway with tragic results.

It is important that issues involved in the recent crash be analyzed and understood before taking any corrective measures.

ALLEN