Passenger Trains > PATCO Rolls Out Newly Refurbished Transit Cars

excerpt from the artcle:

"PATCO finally rolled out the first of its refurbished rail cars Thursday morning, with local officials promising the $194 million overhaul will mean new levels of comfort, safety and reliability for commuters who travel between South Jersey and Center City."

Read more at:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20150529_Refurbished_rail_cars_finally_roll_on_PATCO.html#AqWqQWAhTpyWYTQG.99

Posted from Android

Confort for the operators who will take over the most popular seat on the train.

1, 2. waiting for the ribbon-cutting dedication ceremony on track 1 at Woodcrest station, Cherry Hill
3. first in-service train of rebuilt cars approaching Westmont station: 1096, 1095, 1101, 1102: 10xx were doubles and 11xx were singles.  All are now doubles.

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first revenue train arrived Westmont and arrived Broadway, Camden

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mbrotzman Wrote:
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> Confort for the operators who will take over the
> most popular seat on the train.

The front seat is available only when the car isn't leading.
[The passenger saw my camera and chose not to turn away.]

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A good article with 21 good photos and a video of the train crossing the Ben Franklin Bridge.  Train Operator Earl Robinson has 46 years of service, having worked since PATCO opened in 1969.  PATCO brought him to the podium to introduce him to the crowd before he took the controls for the trip into Philadelphia.  He got a big round of applause.

http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2015/05/what_youll_experience_on_new_patco_trains_followin.html

mbrotzman Wrote:
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> Confort for the operators who will take over the
> most popular seat on the train.

Yes, preposterous.  As if a single operator train requires a full width cab.  And what was wrong with the open cab where patrons could interact with the operator and get information?  Its not like PATCO providesd any other human presence for its customers except police.  I have never heard of any interference or assault problem on PATCO.

Plus bench seating, and the seats look less plush and comfotable than the old ones.

All around, I would call this a downgrade of the interior of the old cars.

Lavishing this much money and space on the operators and ortifying them in the front cab makes me thinkg they should have just gone to fully automatic operation instead and gotten rid of the operators and opened up more seats for the fare paying public.  It would only require door closing senors like in Vancouver, BC.

That's it?  You're whining because you can't sit up front and interact with the Train Operator?  Or you can't sit up front in the railfan seat?

Can you sit up front in Washington?  Can you interact with the motorman in New York?  Or on the rapid-transit line in Boston or Chicago?  Or even in Philadelphia?  Sit up front and chat with the motorman on the Market-Frankford Line, can you?

Are you aware of the passenger messes that the less-saintly passengers leave in the operating cabs and up front in the railfan seats?  How the operators have to clean the compartments sometimes just so they can operate the train back to the yard?  It's gross, and nobody should have to put up with that. 

And, Mr. Safety, since you're so concerned about the cab-signal codes northbound at Frankford Jct., you should be pleased that the PATCO operators will now be able to cross to the opposite side of the car, as they can in Washington, when they're opening doors on the opposite side, as they often are with all of the trackwork taking place, instead of having to rely on mirrors.  It makes it a much safer operation.

The bench seats are the ADA accessible seats.  They flip up for wheelchair access.  Also, bicycles can be secured there instead of standing in the windscreen area, the only logical place in the old cars.  The PATCO people say the single bench seat costs 4 seats per car, a reduction from 80 to 76, but it seems to be a requirement of ADA.

I see passenger-service people in the mornings and Transit Ambassadors in the evenings.  Not all the time and not at every station, but often enough, and I see enough security cameras to make me feel safe in the stations and on the trains.   

I'll miss the railfan seats a lot.  But I understand why they're doing away with them.  What I don't understand is what really, truly prompts this vitriol of yours against a rapid-transit operation that covers 50% of its costs.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/15 15:33 by knotch8.

I hope one of the organizations out there that runs excursions with the old Erie Lackawanna/NJDOT Comet I coaches is on the lookout for the old PATCO seats tossed out in this refurbishment. As I recall, the previous seats were the same design as what was originally in the Comets, before those awful 3-2 benches were installed by NJ Transit. 

knotch8 Wrote:
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> That's it?  You're whining because you can't sit
> up front and interact with the Train Operator? 
> Or you can't sit up front in the railfan seat?

Yes, pretty much.  And your point is what?

> Can you sit up front in Washington?  Can you

Washington has platforms on both sides, its understandable they have a full width cab.

> interact with the motorman in New York?  Or on

New York has a conductor and token booth clerks.  And yes, you can interact with the motorman from outside the train.  I do it when needed.  They are very friendly people.

> the rapid-transit line in Boston or Chicago?  Or
> even in Philadelphia?  Sit up front and chat with

Broad St. Line has platforms on both sides.  You can sort of sit up front.  You could sit up front on Regional Rail until the engineers complained that people actually had the audacity to sit in the front seat.

> the motorman on the Market-Frankford Line, can
> you?

Yes, MFSE has the railfan seat, and the motorman is available if needed.  I see people knock on the door often to ask a question.

> Are you aware of the passenger messes that the
> less-saintly passengers leave in the operating
> cabs and up front in the railfan seats?  How the

So excluding them will magically make this problem go away?  Because they only make messes there?

> operators have to clean the compartments sometimes
> just so they can operate the train back to the yard?

No one ever sat in the operator's compartment on PATCO, so this is a non-problem.  Extending the operator's compartment into the passenger seating area actually causes the problem you mention.

> And, Mr. Safety, since you're so concerned about
> the cab-signal codes northbound at Frankford Jct.,
> you should be pleased that the PATCO operators
> will now be able to cross to the opposite side of
> the car, as they can in Washington, when they're
> opening doors on the opposite side, as they often

PATCO operators on the system as originally designed only had to close doors.  They could do so easily and safely from the open cab compartment using mirrors as done the entire time PATCO was in existence on almost every train at 16th, 11th, and Lindenwold.  Of course, if this is a real safety concern, I support full automation, as in Vancouver, BC.

> are with all of the trackwork taking place,
> instead of having to rely on mirrors.  It makes
> it a much safer operation.

Cars should not be designed for ephemeral maintenance projects but to support moving the public.

> The bench seats are the ADA accessible seats. 
> They flip up for wheelchair access.  Also,
> bicycles can be secured there instead of standing
> in the windscreen area, the only logical place in
> the old cars.  The PATCO people say the single
> bench seat costs 4 seats per car, a reduction from
> 80 to 76, but it seems to be a requirement of
> ADA.

I get that.  I'd like to see them on the opposite side of the car behind the operator cab.

> I see passenger-service people in the mornings and
> Transit Ambassadors in the evenings.  Not all the
> time and not at every station, but often enough,
> and I see enough security cameras to make me feel
> safe in the stations and on the trains.   

A constant presence of the operator available to ask a simple question is far superior to the people you mention.  Its not like the operator is actually doing anything more complexs than monitoring while the train is in motion, given that it is controlled by ATO.

> I'll miss the railfan seats a lot.  But I
> understand why they're doing away with them. 
> What I don't understand is what really, truly
> prompts this vitriol of yours against a
> rapid-transit operation that covers 50% of its
> costs.

PATCO actually used to make a profit and for a long time made about 80-90 cents on the dollar before it started larding it on in this way with its operating costs and reducing its capacity.  It did so through speed, frequency, low fares, and comfort to attract 40,000 riders a day to the demographic equivalent of the Warminster line (I think SEPTA gets 8,000 on that) in terms of density and service area.  Now I am supposed to applaud them covering 50% and carrying less riders today than in the 1970's?  I pay tolls on the bridges like everyone else when I venture beyond the PATCO area - I'd like to see my dollars being used in a better way at DRPA.  The refurbished cars show a new service priority that doesn't seem to put the public first.  They reflect the mentality that I think is responsible for the dwindling of ridership at PATCO over the years even as the area grows.

In picture #3 is a building in the background where a Trainorders member lives.  

ME!