Passenger Trains > The VerMontrealer ?

http://vtdigger.org/2015/05/24/the-vermontrealer-its-a-long-way-back-for-passenger-rail-to-montreal/#.VWRefv0OaBE.twitter

Interesting factoids, which I suspected all along:

• VTrans consultant Parsons Brinckerhoff, who also concluded that the train would recover about 55 percent of its costs through fares...looks good in comparison with the Vermonter’s figure, which...stands at 44 percent.
• A 2011 Amtrak analysis provided to VTDigger by Amtrak concluded that an overnight Montreal-Vermont-Washington train would perform better, attracting almost 20 percent more riders than a daytime service and requiring $746,000 less in state subsidization.
• a daytime train would serve many more travelers boarding or disembarking in Vermont, and the state, therefore, is not interested in nighttime service — however much better it might look in an Amtrak pro forma.
• a daytime train would cost an additional $3.5 million annually, while its revenues would rise by only $1.5 million. Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and conceivably the province of Quebec or even local communities served, would have to make up the added $2 million deficit.

What I find interesting is that people still remember the "Le Pub Lounge Car" - which was an Amtrak innovation.  

The train included a lounge car, Le Pub, which for a time featured live music and “specially priced Harvey Wallbangers....”

What is the new 21st century "Le Pub" car? How does Amtrak get a name for itself with having such a car.

I agree that Montreal and NYP/WAS would be great "anchors" for the train and also get the train pretty filled right out of the starting gate. Southbound, as mentioned in the article the current Vermonter doesn't reach its passenger peak until Connecticut (Hartford was mentioned). It starts out of St. Albans with a few passengers and then continues to get passengers as it goes down the line - but nothing like the count it would potentially get if leaving out of Montreal.

Totally support getting "customs" done at Montreal (like in Vancouver, BC). It is a LOT faster and efficient. The current border crossing is ridiculous and old school.

The Vermonter is a great train - getting it up to Montreal will only add patronage. Having a connecting train at Springfield (perhaps via the Lake Shore if timed properly) would also be a positive. But also, how does it get a name for itself - along the lines of "Pacific Parlor Car" and "Le Pub."

PS - it would be great if maybe a private operator comes into the picture to offer a night-time WAS/NYP to Vermonter/Montreal packaged train. I have always believed it would be a popular train on Thursday/Friday and Sunday/Monday.  

If the Vermonter returns to Montreal will the Adirondack continue to still run to Montreal. I ride the Adirondack quite often and Canadian ridership seems to be good. This would be 2 Frequencies to Montreal which would be great.

Without getting out some old PTJ issues...I seem to remember the train having almost double the ridership it has today when it ran to Montreal overnight. Perhaps someone else can post the stats.

Posted from Android

cashfare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Without getting out some old PTJ issues...I seem
> to remember the train having almost double the
> ridership it has today when it ran to Montreal
> overnight. Perhaps someone else can post the
> stats.
>
> Posted from Android

I'd like to see that stats too, as that's what I continously hear from "old-timers" that live in Vermont and used the train as well as crew members. But I've never gone back to look up the stats - and it is somewhat difficult due to the inoperation for part of the year(s) when trackwork had to be done etc. or train was canceled.

 

Funny, The picture in the article shows a Surfliner Unit. 

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

Interesting question about overnight service. It would clearly attract a sizable Canadian ridership, but which way should it go-- through NY or Vermont?

Either  way, the states are going to have to contribute $$$, and I think the case for state support is stronger in NY than in Vermont. . Nobody wants to get on or off the train in the middle of the night. At sunrise, an overnighter on the Adirondack route (let's call it the Montreal Limited) is still in NY, somewhere around NY City, and thus can contribute tourist revenue to the state that's supporting the service.  An overnighter on the Vermonter route is no longer in Vermont. 

What I would do instead is have the Vermonter diverted to Burlington, VT as a terminus, but extend the Ethan Allen up to Burlington, Essex Jct, and Montreal as the overnight service. Then they can keep the PM departure from NY and retain some Rutland business. Extending the Ethan Allen to only Burlington will cost it some Rutland and Saratoga business since it becomes an all day trip departing NY earlier.

I looked thorough a few mid-1980's PTJ's and they did not have ridership stats. I don't know how often they did it.
Rail Travel News (remember them ?) used to, but I long since threw out all the issues.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/15 06:32 by joemvcnj.

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting question about overnight service. It
> would clearly attract a sizable Canadian
> ridership, but which way should it go-- through NY
> or Vermont?
>
> Either  way, the states are going to have to
> contribute $$$, and I think the case for state
> support is stronger in NY than in Vermont. .
> Nobody wants to get on or off the train in the
> middle of the night. At sunrise, an overnighter on
> the Adirondack route (let's call it the Montreal
> Limited) is still in NY, somewhere around NY City,
> and thus can contribute tourist revenue to the
> state that's supporting the service.  An
> overnighter on the Vermonter route is no longer in
> Vermont. 

Think less of a pure "overnight" but Vermonters looking to take a day trip from WRJ to Montreal or Essex Jct to Montreal. This is what I hear was "attractive" for "in-state ridership." You would leave White River Junction (WRJ) at 6 am or Essex Jct at 8 am and return in late evening. These Vermonters were riding in coach back then. You could almost get fairly passenger friendly times down to Brattleboro and Montreal (both directions). After that - forget it - but you are also not in Vermont any more! Think outside the box. You want sleeper revenue for Montreal to NYP/WAS patronage and coach revenue for the shorthalls or those taking the train for short distance or as economical means of travel.

And yes, this is why the Adirondack didn't really work as well and Amtrak chose the Vermonter for the oernight journey.

There was a good amount of ski ridership, which the Vermonter lacks. Additioanly the cost of travel over iron from St. Albans to Montreal is not cheap...not cheap at all.