Passenger Trains > A ride on 98 and 91 (w/o diner)

Earlier this week I took an intra-Florida trip on train 98 to visit family. Going up I rode coach with my mother. I was concerned about OTP, since the Silvers have been struggling big time. Fortunately, 98 was on-time to West Palm Beach and only 40 minutes late into Palatka. A good chunk of that was due to either SunRail interference or delays loading/unloading passengers. Ate in the dining car and we both had the panko chicken with mashed potatoes. Very good. I had the tiramisu for dessert which was absolutely delicious. Halfway through our trip, I realized I missed having a roomette and new I wouldn't be able to tolerate the return trip by myself, so I set out to upgrade. I could either pay an extra $200+ on 97 or $105 on 91 (but no meals). After debating for a bit, I went ahead with 91 since I knew a lunch isn't worth $100.

This morning I took train 91 back home. Good thing I chose 91 over 97 as 97 was over 2 hours late and 91 was a more bearable 1 hour late. Shortly after departing I headed down to the cafe car and bought a Jimmy Dean breakfast sandwich and a bagel (fortunately coffee was free and available in my sleeping car). Subpar food, not work the $8 or whatever I paid. I definitely missed the scrambled egg breakfast with grits, toast, and orange juice. Surprisingly, the cafe car was relatively empty, though it was about 9:30 when I went over. Shortly before arriving Orlando, I walked through the entire train to get an idea of how many people were onboard. Pretty much every room and bedroom was occupied in the two sleeping cars, as were all four coaches. A good portion of the coach passengers were heading to Orlando with the other chunk heading toward Tampa (where another sizable load came on to head to S. Florida). .After the Tampa stop (about 1:30 pm) I headed back to the cafe car to get lunch. Cheese pizza and pepsi....bleh. Not even close to a meal in the dining car. Basically a ghost town when I started eating, but by the time I left a line started forming (I'm guessing from the new Tampa passengers). 

As far as my roomette, I had a pretty lively attendant and the attendant in the other car was a (good) familiar face. Interestingly, I thought I read a year ago that ice would no longer be available and bottled water would be limited, by every sleeper trip I've taken since then had ice available and no limit on water. In fact, I received two 20 oz bottles today instead of the usual smaller size. My attendant kept stressing to new passengers that boarded to let Amtrak know that they're not content with the dining car situation. Actually, two coach passengers wandered up to the sleepers wondering where the dining car was. Instead of making service cuts, there needs to be additions and improvements. Maybe open up the dining car more (getting rid of reservations and combining lunch and dinner menus). 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/15 15:11 by chrsjrcj.

Thanks for the trip report.  Here is a video of your train coming through Folkston this morning.

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The modern day version of the Spirit of California.

Just kidding, Nice video and trip report

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

I didn't realize it started already.  Thanks for the trip report.  @$100 sounds about right in my book.  No long lines in the cafe is what surprised me.

Go ahead and write Amtrak, and copy to Congressman Mica !

Thanks for the trip report.  Great video!

Gerry Gaugl
Ottawa ON

My suggestion on the diner situation is this.  Now days most every motel and hotel you stay in both here and in Europe offer a free breakfast.  Amtrak LD trains are just hotels on wheels.  Put the diner back on the train and offer a free breakfast buffet to all passengers period.  For sleeping car passengers offer one more meal at their choosing, either lunch or dinner.  Amtrak needs to wake up and do some innovative thinking.

I will say that the Star seems to be a very unique train.

It's too bad they couldn't run a train to Jacksonville (once again) and then split so one section goes to Miami and the other goes to Tampa. Then start the Silver Star in Jacksonville and run it as a day train on up to NYP.

I asked the conductor on the Silver Star what the largest station stop for the Silver Star was and the answer was Tampa - and then Pinehurst on north.

Most popular meal - lunch second day.  

With all that being said, though, the Palmetto really needs to be extended back to Miami or Tampa as an overnight train.

jfrank39 Wrote:
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> My suggestion on the diner situation is this. 
> Now days most every motel and hotel you stay in
> both here and in Europe offer a free breakfast. 
> Amtrak LD trains are just hotels on wheels.  Put
> the diner back on the train and offer a free
> breakfast buffet to all passengers period.  For
> sleeping car passengers offer one more meal at
> their choosing, either lunch or dinner.  Amtrak
> needs to wake up and do some innovative thinking.

That would probably work well on a one-night trip.  I wouldn't be interested in it for longer trips than that.

sums007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jfrank39 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My suggestion on the diner situation is this. 
> > Now days most every motel and hotel you stay in
> > both here and in Europe offer a free
> breakfast. 
> > Amtrak LD trains are just hotels on wheels. 
> Put
> > the diner back on the train and offer a free
> > breakfast buffet to all passengers period. 
> For
> > sleeping car passengers offer one more meal at
> > their choosing, either lunch or dinner. 
> Amtrak
> > needs to wake up and do some innovative
> thinking.
>
> That would probably work well on a one-night
> trip.  I wouldn't be interested in it for longer
> trips than that.

When you take a LD train ride you really aren't doing anything and for the most part do not need three full meals a day.  So if you ate breakfast on Amtrak's dime and then had one other meal, like a steak dinner or something, what else is needed.  If you get hungry in between just get a snack in the lounge car.  It would help Amtrak's costs, not really bother the passengers that much and keep the diners on the train.  It's certaily better than Amtrak's all or nothing aproach.

When I rode 91 WAS-RGH last week a whole coach was devoted to Tampa, another was full of Rocky Mount interestingly enough. Of course I was in the Raleigh coach. Train was overbooked and WAS-RVR they had to stuff people and their luggage in the lounge. Coach attendent Miss Diaz was hustling, on top of everything. 

NCDOTF59 Wrote:
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> When I rode 91 WAS-RGH last week a whole coach was
> devoted to Tampa, another was full of Rocky Mount
> interestingly enough. Of course I was in the
> Raleigh coach. Train was overbooked and WAS-RVR
> they had to stuff people and their luggage in the
> lounge. Coach attendent Miss Diaz was hustling, on
> top of everything. 

That's interesting they were over booked on an all reserved train.  I wonder if the yield manager authorized more tickets than seats, figuring there would be NO SHOW passengers, or if the yard shorted the train one coach?

I bet this experiment Amtrak's testing on 91 and 92 will fail! Talk about wasting money on trying to make cuts just to make some idiot in DC Happy since they say Amtrak needs to eleminate their food and beverage loses just because of the so called "Amtrak needs to make a profit" mandate!

chrsjrcj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Subpar food, not work(sic) the $8 or
> whatever I paid...Surprisingly, the cafe car was relatively empty,


There might be a correlation there...

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chrsjrcj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Subpar food, not work(sic) the $8 or
> > whatever I paid...Surprisingly, the cafe car was
> relatively empty,
>
>
> There might be a correlation there...

Other posters have observed that dining cars often serve a largely sleeping car clentele.  It makes sense that some passengers who are seeking the lowest cost travel in some markets might not gravitate toward what is an expensive meal for many folks.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Other posters have observed that dining cars often
> serve a largely sleeping car clentele.  It makes
> sense that some passengers who are seeking the
> lowest cost travel in some markets might not
> gravitate toward what is an expensive meal for
> many folks.

I have not found that to be the case at all.  Most meals have a good mix of sleeping vs coach passengers.  Breakfast is good because it is the most affordable meal on the train and, unless you are a typical American, it provides almost half the calories one would need in a day.  I travel coach on the Crescent from GNS to BAL and I always pay cash for a breakfast. With tip and meat side the total is like $12.  Considering a Chipoltle burrito is $10 and a Subway meal is $8, that's a pretty good deal considering.

My experience of late has left me quite amazed. I have noticed less and less coach passengers in the Diner than what used to be. Sleeping car passengers will gravitate to the Diner because they "know" the meal is included in their fare.

What was the "Diner that used to be:"

- Real China (Amtrak produces a LOT of trash with the current plastic and cups and plates - or whatever the material is. How can they say they are "green")
- Different trains had their own menu
- Less use of the "microwave" or "convection oven" and more "real cooking" for better quality
- Affordable prices for most
- Promotion of the Diner (lacking more on the East Coast than LD Western Long Hauls)
- Better desserts (sorry but the stuff they currently serve just reaks of cheapness yet prices remain the same)
- Free salad, free diner roll
- Better service (no waiting around for coffee or tea re-fills)
- Less pastic, which just makes things look and appear "cheap" when the prices don't reflect that
- Better food (lot of inconsistency - chicken is dry, omlet is "runny" or overcooked and not sure how that happens)
- There were actually lunch and dinner "specials"
- Better experience overall - the little things often count - tablecloth, real napkins, flowers etc.

If Amtrak can create a good "dining" experience, including coach tickets with prepaid vouchers for meals in the diner, this could likely "work" now. I used to suggest this all the time. But I wouldn't now with current dining experience. And if sleeper and meal was divorced, not sure if I would be at every meal. So there is value to "knowing meals are included." I think this works well for the Auto Train.

The Diner could never operate at a profit. The "fully loaded cost" of employee cost prohibits this.

BUT, minimize the dinining losses by creating volume. What's the fixed costs, and what are the variable costs. For example, labor is always going to be fixed for the most part. Lets presume that Amtrak operates a positive gross profit (retail meal sold less cost of the meal yields a positive profit), the only way Amtrak has a CHANCE at breaking even is upping the prices (they've done that and I think it has effectively effectively pushed away diners) or maintaining a positive gross profit and leaning towards volume. Promote that everyone aboard has breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I will say, that I have noticed the Coast Starlight's diner pretty full at all meal times, as well as the Empire Builder. But the East Coast LD trains vary tremendously, as well as the Southwest Chief and even CA Zephyr when I last took it.

I think Amtrak should run another experiment - good onboard service, good dining experience (the "what was" as described above) and the promotion of the diner as "newly revamped." Perhaps this debuts with four new Viewliner Diners that are assigned to a train......