Passenger Trains > WaPo: MD Gov Takes Purple Lightrail Line" From Cadillac to Chevy"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/hogans-purple-line-trims-would-eliminate-some-station-elevators-art/2015/07/06/a8013cce-241d-11e5-b77f-eb13a215f593_story.html?hpid=z2

The article says the state cutback significantly on their financial support and turned it back to liberal Montgomery and prince Georges counties....willl be interesting to see of they will spend their own money to support this.
No artwork in stations, either....

Once he's out of office (or dead from cancer) the projects will get revived.

If they really wanted to save money they would build it like an old suburban streetcar line with 90 pound rail, trolley wire, single track and ABS with sprung switched passing points.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/15 06:02 by mbrotzman.

In all honesty we do NOT need this expensive Red Line in Baltimore.  The current "Snail Rail" Light Rail is a disgrace in that it serves very few people for many reasons, the main one being it runs way too slow in downtown Baltimore.  Then there are undesirables who frequent the line which turns off many potential riders.  The north portion operates on the former Pennsylvania Line prior known as the Northern Central Railroad.  This line should have been rebuilt as a commuter railroad line for MARC trains and extended farther out into the north parts of Baltimore County.  In today's world many folks who commute to Baltimore would ride this train rather than drive on the I-83 expressway which gets tied up daily.  If MARC trains operated on this line they would be able to connect to the other MARC and Amtrak trains in the current Penn Station and some riders would definitely transfer to go down to Washington, D.C.  It's a shame that clear thinking people did not have any planning with our rail transportation system in the Baltimore area.  Too many politicians of course only want more highways which continue to be congested even more each year and it does not matter how many additional lanes are added to these highways, it encourages more people to drive, thus more backups every day.  I have seen this from the early days of the Baltimore Beltway back in the 1950's to where today, anytime one goes out and drives on it, you most definitely will run into a back up any time during the day.  We don't need more highways in Maryland.  We need our existing railroads to be improved and more commuter trains added.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

Purple Line is an entirely differerent matter for circumferential travel for which the only real alternatiove is the Beltway. No commuter rail line can run in its place. Not all travel is centric to DC. Telling people to go via DC to get between PG and Montgomery County on WMATA or MARC is ridiculous. MARC trains on the Brunswick line are peak direction rush hour commuter trains. It does not even run on minor holidays or the Friday after Thanksgiving.

No artwork...the horror of it all. It doesn't help that a lot of this "artwork" is decidedly mediocre.

It's all the "add-ons" like art, bike paths, and ancillary facilities that inflate the costs of these projects. And that's before we get to barnacles like Davis-Bacon.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

The current light rail line is only slow downtown because the city refuses to activate the traffic light premption system so that suburban drivers won't be inconvienenced.

Also the Light Rail is far more effective at serving the Northern Central than an hourly headway, weekday only MARC service.

ClubCar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In all honesty we do NOT need this expensive Red
> Line in Baltimore.  The current "Snail Rail"
> Light Rail is a disgrace in that it serves very
> few people for many reasons, the main one being it
> runs way too slow in downtown Baltimore.  Then
> there are undesirables who frequent the line which
> turns off many potential riders.  The north
> portion operates on the former Pennsylvania Line
> prior known as the Northern Central Railroad.
>  This line should have been rebuilt as a commuter
> railroad line for MARC trains and extended farther
> out into the north parts of Baltimore County.  In
> today's world many folks who commute to Baltimore
> would ride this train rather than drive on the
> I-83 expressway which gets tied up daily.  If
> MARC trains operated on this line they would be
> able to connect to the other MARC and Amtrak
> trains in the current Penn Station and some riders
> would definitely transfer to go down to
> Washington, D.C.  It's a shame that clear
> thinking people did not have any planning with our
> rail transportation system in the Baltimore area.
>  Too many politicians of course only want more
> highways which continue to be congested even more
> each year and it does not matter how many
> additional lanes are added to these highways, it
> encourages more people to drive, thus more backups
> every day.  I have seen this from the early days
> of the Baltimore Beltway back in the 1950's to
> where today, anytime one goes out and drives on
> it, you most definitely will run into a back up
> any time during the day.  We don't need more
> highways in Maryland.  We need our existing
> railroads to be improved and more commuter trains
> added.
> John in White Marsh, Maryland

Dcmcrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No artwork...the horror of it all. It doesn't help
> that a lot of this "artwork" is decidedly
> mediocre.
>
> It's all the "add-ons" like art, bike paths, and
> ancillary facilities that inflate the costs of
> these projects. And that's before we get to
> barnacles like Davis-Bacon.

In NJ, the ancillary facility upgrades are a small part of the increase.

The big increases come when projects are shoved out the door without sufficient screening and analysis, then hundreds of work order changes inflate the costs dramatically.  The deal is to bid low, and make your profits on all the work order changes, "newly discovered" problems, etc.

Happens all the time, everywhere.

My question / issue with the Purple line is "If Montgomery and Prince George's counties expect huge increases in property values due to this rail line, why aren't they willing to increase property taxes in the immediate areas? I know the real estate developers don't like that idea, they'd prefer people in Hagerstown etc pay for the line, but what's wrong with a transporation district?"

Lackawanna484 Wrote:

>
> My question / issue with the Purple line is "If
> Montgomery and Prince George's counties expect
> huge increases in property values due to this rail
> line, why aren't they willing to increase property
> taxes in the immediate areas? I know the real
> estate developers don't like that idea, they'd
> prefer people in Hagerstown etc pay for the line,
> but what's wrong with a transporation district?"

That's how the local (county) portion for Phase II of the Silver Line to Dulles is being financed. A special tax district based on anticipated development--and developers have largely gone along with it. Speaking of "add-ons" that project has been walloped with cost increases for stormwater management and watershed protection.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

You don't increase property taxes, you institute a tax on a % of the property appriciation for property in the vicinity of the infrastructure improvement.  So if I live near the light rail, and my property appriciates by 20% when similar properties away from the line only went up by 10%, I pay a portion of the surplus 10% to the country to pay for the improvement when I sell the property.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/15 09:57 by mbrotzman.

mbrotzman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't increase property taxes, you institute a
> tax on a % of the property appriciation for
> property in the vicinity of the infrastructure
> improvement.  So if I live near the light rail,
> and my property appriciates by 20% when similar
> properties away from the line only went up by 10%,
> I pay a portion of the surplus 10% to the country
> to pay for the improvement when I sell the
> property.

That's how a (small) portion of the NY MTA funding district scheme operates, as well.  You pay a surcharge when you sell  property within a member county. There was a plan to have a few mills added to the local, county etc rates for annual funding, but I don't think that passed.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> My question / issue with the Purple line is "If Montgomery and Prince George's counties expect
> huge increases in property values due to this rail line, why aren't they willing to increase property
> taxes in the immediate areas? I know the real estate developers don't like that idea, they'd
> prefer people in Hagerstown etc pay for the line, but what's wrong with a transpiration district?"

Virginia already uses transportation districts, e.g., VRE or METRO to Dulles.  However, that is Virginia, where logic generally wins out, e.g. the new (relatively)  Lynchburg/Norfolk Amtrak services.

But this is in Maryland, where two of the 10 richest counties in the US would rather use "other peoples money" to pay for their transportation systems.
 

hazegray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:

> But this is in Maryland, where two of the 10
> richest counties in the US would rather use
> "other peoples money" to pay for their
> transportation systems.


And that's why they're rich....lol

hazegray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> But this is in Maryland, where two of the 10
> richest counties in the US would rather use
> "other peoples money" to pay for their
> transportation systems.
>  
You're barking up the wrong tree with that comment. 

As of January 2014:

1) Private funding accounted for around 34% of the Purple Line's budget.  Very few transit projects anywhere in the US have this level of private sector funding.

2) Non-federal public funding (primarily from the State of Maryland) accounted for 28% ($670 million) of the project's budget.  If these counties' residents are, as you say, two of the richest in the US, then they are certainly paying plenty of taxes into the state coffers. In this context "other people's money" is an unfair characterization.

3) Federal funding would have only accounted for 38% of the project's budget.  Typical federal share of transit projects is now 50 - 60%.  Federal funding pays for 90% of highway projects costs.  Now there's an example of having "other peoples' money" to pay for transportation systems.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/15 20:34 by RuleG.

Hazegay wrote:

<<3) Federal funding would have only accounted for 38% of the project's budget.  Typical federal share of transit projects is now 50 - 60%.  Federal funding pays for 90% of highway projects costs.  Now there's an example of having "other peoples' money" to pay for transportation systems. >>

You're right ...   We here in northern Alabama have been wondering how our "contributions" to the construcion of the Purple Line across Prince Georges amd Montgomey Counties are supposed to be beneficial to us. 

Fritz in HSV, AL

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 3) Federal funding would have only accounted for
> 38% of the project's budget.  Typical federal
> share of transit projects is now 50 - 60%. 


When it should be zero. That line is purely for local users, maybe a few percent of projected riders would be from out of the region.


> Federal funding pays for 90% of highway projects
> costs.  Now there's an example of having "other
> peoples' money" to pay for transportation
> systems.


Only to the ignorant. 100% of the gas tax collected in the states is sent to the feds for reapportionment. How much of transit ticket sales or local area transit taxes are sent to the feds for reapportionment? Zero.

navy5717th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> You're right ...   We here in northern Alabama have been wondering how our "contributions" to the
> construcion of the Purple Line across Prince Georges amd Montgomey Counties are supposed to be
> beneficial to us. 
>
> Fritz in HSV, AL

OK, Fritz, then you ought to closely consider former SF columnist Herb Caen's comment that the nice thing about Los Angeles was that the kind of people who would actually want to live there usually did (confession: I lived in the Bay Area at that time)
Your "contributions" will likely enable residents of those counties to remain there and not come to Huntsville area...

<When it should be zero. That line is purely for local users, maybe a few percent of projected riders would be from out of the region. >

Darkcloud, you are 50 years out of cycle. Federal subsidization of auto commuters has been around for decades, or there would be no interstate highways over 4 lanes, nor any loops or spurs into cities. I hear Atlanta's Perimeter highway is up to 27 lanes now.

hazegray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> navy5717th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > You're right ...   We here in northern
> Alabama have been wondering how our
> "contributions" to the
> > construcion of the Purple Line across
> Prince Georges amd Montgomey Counties are
> supposed to be
> > beneficial to us. 
> >
> > Fritz in HSV, AL
>
> OK, Fritz, then you ought to closely consider
> former SF columnist Herb Caen's comment that the
> nice thing about Los Angeles was that the kind of
> people who would actually want to live there
> usually did (confession: I lived in the Bay Area
> at that time)
> Your "contributions" will likely enable residents
> of those counties to remain there and not come to
> Huntsville area...

Alas, you may have a point.  Regarding LAX and SFO, Governor Moonbeeam is trying his darnedest to bring these two rat cultures together with his CAHSR project.

Today, Madera, tomorrow Modesto!!

Fritz in HSV, AL