Passenger Trains > Napa Valley Wine Train Orders off Black Women's Book Club

California Wine Train Orders off Black Women's Book Club
Associated Press via ABC News
Aug 24, 2015
by ELLEN KNICKMEYER

> Members of a mostly black women's book club say a luxe Napa Valley
> wine train kicked them off because of their race.
>
> The 11 members of the Sisters on the Reading Edge book club, all but
>  one of whom is African American, say the Napa Valley Wine Train
> ordered them off Saturday, mid-journey...wine train spokesman Sam
> Singer said train employees had asked the women to either quiet down
> or get off the wine train and accept a free bus ride back to their
> starting point.
>
> A manager on the train repeatedly told the women they were laughing
> and talking too loudly, book-club member Lisa Renee Johnson told San
>  Francisco television station KTVU. "We didn't do anything wrong,"
> said Johnson, who chronicled the episode via cellphone videos...
>
> "We still feel this is about race. We were singled out," Johnson told
> KTVU...
>
> Employees of the Napa Valley Wine Train, which offers food and wine
> to passengers as they roll to Napa County wineries in updated Pullman
> cars, had asked the book club members to either be quieter or get off
> the train, Singer said Monday. "The book club clearly was fun-loving,
> boisterous and loud enough that it affected the experience of some of
> the passengers who were in the same car, who complained to staff," he
> said.
>
> The company refunded the women's ticket money, Singer said.
>
> On average, Singer said, individuals or groups are asked to get off
> the wine train once a month for one reason or the other. "It's not a
> question of bias," he said...
>
> Wine train employees had called the police to deal with what they
> reported were "11 disruptive females," (St. Helena Police
> spokeswoman Maria) Gonzalez said.
>
> Police arrived at the railway siding and found "there was no crime
> being committed ... nobody was intoxicated, there were no issues." So
> officers left, Gonzalez said.
>
> In the past, she said, the town's police had responded to wine-train
>  calls to offload passengers because of domestic incidents on board
> or for fighting...


Full story:

California Wine Train Orders off Black Women's Book Club

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/15 18:30 by GenePoon.

> In the past, she said, the town's police had
> responded to wine-train calls to offload passengers
> because of domestic incidents on board
> or for fighting...

Geesh!  Sounds like Amtrak.  I guess anywhere alcohol flows, you can expect drunk and obnoxious people.

I worked as a Conductor on the wine train in 2010. After the conductor takes tickets and once the train starts, the conductor joins the enggineer in the cab and becomes a glorified brakeman. The On board personal can communicate to the engine via private line or two way. ANY on board incidents either come from the "Train Manager" or other on board stalff. So, essentiallly, the complaints or incidents are handled back in the train with little involment from tne crew. Its the on board crew that calls the Wine train Railroad Police who can, if needed call for back-up.   Mike Pechner

I smell a lawsuit in the making. This is a cultural clash. Different cultures tolerate different levels of social noise. These ladies need to be compensated about $1,000 each. That will be cheaper than fighting them in Court. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/15 21:19 by DavidJustinLynch.

Shirley you jest. They were apparently asked to quiet down, which ap[arently they didn't, continuing to disrupt the car they were on. They get nothing, the patrons that were disturbed, sue the pants off the book club going after mass quantities. What makes it right for a few people to disturb a whole car and then cry foul? Oh yeah, scum sucking attorneys, never mind.

DavidJustinLynch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I smell a lawsuit in the making. This is a
> cultural clash. Different cultures tolerate
> different levels of social noise. These ladies
> need to be compensated about $1,000 each. That
> will be cheaper than fighting them in Court. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/15 21:39 by SP4360.

They played the race card.

jo-tower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They played the race card.
Well stop dealing it, we won't play it!!!

Well, I've been doing this LSA thing for a long time. For me, it works like this:
If you've got a group like this, noisy and disruptive, and they're oblivious to the other 300 passengers around them- but every one of those 300 passengers is VERY aware of that group...
It's time to act.
SR

It's the same story everytime.   Not following instructions, rules, or laws, and then shocked you are suddenly in trouble with the law.   Chris Rock said it best in his youtube video.

Passengers on the Wine Train are supposed to act dignified.


DavidJustinLynch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I smell a lawsuit in the making. This is a
> cultural clash. Different cultures tolerate
> different levels of social noise. These ladies
> need to be compensated about $1,000 each. That
> will be cheaper than fighting them in Court. 

Oh no. they were disrespected!  Time for Rev. Al to get involved. 

Folks pay a lot of good money to ride the WIne Train and have a right to expect an experience equal to a 5 star resturant.  If you want to be loud and rude, don't ride the Wine Train.  Had I been a passenger on the train and those "ladies" had not been escorted off the train, I would have demanded my money back.  There is a time and place for loud and rude but it is not on the Wine Train.    

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

NYT version:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/us/napa-valley-wine-train-ejection-sparks-laughingwhileblack-backlash.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=wide&state=standard&contentPlacement=3&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2015%2F08%2F25%2Fus%2Fnapa-valley-wine-train-ejection-sparks-laughingwhileblack-backlash.html&eventName=Watching-article-click

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh no. they were disrespected!  Time for Rev. Al
> to get involved. 

Here we go again. Yawn. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/15 05:12 by ATSF3751.

It would be interesting to know how many Trainorders members are black, and what their racial experiences as blacks has been.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> California Wine Train Orders off Black Women's
> Book Club
> Associated Press via ABC News
> Aug 24, 2015
> by ELLEN KNICKMEYER
>
> > Members of a mostly black women's book club say
> a luxe Napa Valley
> > wine train kicked them off because of their
> race.
> >
> > The 11 members of the Sisters on the Reading
> Edge book club, all but
> >  one of whom is African American, say the Napa
> Valley Wine Train
> > ordered them off Saturday, mid-journey...wine
> train spokesman Sam
> > Singer said train employees had asked the women
> to either quiet down
> > or get off the wine train and accept a free bus
> ride back to their
> > starting point.
> >
> > A manager on the train repeatedly told the women
> they were laughing
> > and talking too loudly, book-club member Lisa
> Renee Johnson told San
> >  Francisco television station KTVU. "We didn't
> do anything wrong,"
> > said Johnson, who chronicled the episode via
> cellphone videos...
> >
> > "We still feel this is about race. We were
> singled out," Johnson told
> > KTVU...
> >
> > Employees of the Napa Valley Wine Train, which
> offers food and wine
> > to passengers as they roll to Napa County
> wineries in updated Pullman
> > cars, had asked the book club members to either
> be quieter or get off
> > the train, Singer said Monday. "The book club
> clearly was fun-loving,
> > boisterous and loud enough that it affected the
> experience of some of
> > the passengers who were in the same car, who
> complained to staff," he
> > said.
> >
> > The company refunded the women's ticket money,
> Singer said.
> >
> > On average, Singer said, individuals or groups
> are asked to get off
> > the wine train once a month for one reason or
> the other. "It's not a
> > question of bias," he said...
> >
> > Wine train employees had called the police to
> deal with what they
> > reported were "11 disruptive females," (St.
> Helena Police
> > spokeswoman Maria) Gonzalez said.
> >
> > Police arrived at the railway siding and found
> "there was no crime
> > being committed ... nobody was intoxicated,
> there were no issues." So
> > officers left, Gonzalez said.
> >
> > In the past, she said, the town's police had
> responded to wine-train
> >  calls to offload passengers because of
> domestic incidents on board
> > or for fighting...
>
>
> Full story:
>
> California Wine Train Orders off Black Women's
> Book Club
>
>  

I happen to be a California attorney. Nothing these women were doing violated any laws on the books of the State of California or the United States. The police who met them concluded the same thing and declined to arrest them.  Disturbing other people with loud conversation may be rude by the standards of upper middle class people but it is not illegal and therefore not deserving of being put off the train. Just because other people don't like who you are or how you behave does not make you a lawbreaker or warrant any kind of punishment whatsoever. Unwritten rules and customs are irrelevant.  Moreover, even if one takes the position that Napa Valley Wine Train as a private entity can do whatever it wants in running their business, they have to give notice of what their rules are to make it enforceable as part of their contract of carriage. They have to put it in the brochure, on a sign, and it has to be definite and certain...if' you're talking about noise, you have to state in decibel levels. Allowing staff to judge people's conduct according to infomal, unwritten norms of behavior is not only irrational and ridiculous, but in this case discriminatory in violation of the Unruh Act because their actions were directed at Black persons who were following the cultural norms of their community which are otherwise lawful. I hope some attorney in Northern CA picks up this case and runs with it. 

Offering an opportunity of private space along with a group rate could let folks carry on as much as they care to.

Sounds like this wasn't handled well. My mother's card group would make a similar amount of racket, I suspect.

Posted from Android

You are part of the problem. 
DavidJustinLynch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I happen to be a California attorney. Nothing
> these women were doing violated any laws on the
> books of the State of California or the United
> States. The police who met them concluded the same
> thing and declined to arrest them.  Disturbing
> other people with loud conversation may be rude by
> the standards of upper middle class people but it
> is not illegal and therefore not deserving of
> being put off the train. Just because other people
> don't like who you are or how you behave does not
> make you a lawbreaker or warrant any kind of
> punishment whatsoever. Unwritten rules and customs
> are irrelevant.  Moreover, even if one takes the
> position that Napa Valley Wine Train as a private
> entity can do whatever it wants in running their
> business, they have to give notice of what their
> rules are to make it enforceable as part of their
> contract of carriage. They have to put it in the
> brochure, on a sign, and it has to be definite and
> certain...if' you're talking about noise, you have
> to state in decibel levels. Allowing staff to
> judge people's conduct according to infomal,
> unwritten norms of behavior is not only irrational
> and ridiculous, but in this case discriminatory in
> violation of the Unruh Act because their actions
> were directed at Black persons who were following
> the cultural norms of their community which are
> otherwise lawful. I hope some attorney in Northern
> CA picks up this case and runs with it. 

I know what The Bard would do....
SR

Allowing "cultural norms of a group" to define interaction invites conflict. Do Sikh people have a religious and cultural right to carry their machetes anywhere they wish? Or the Santeria to bite the heads off live chickens?

Society works, in part because we recognize reasonable interests of many different groups

Posted from Android