Passenger Trains > Final Viewliner Bags Delivered

This afternoon the remaining 12 Viewliner Baggage Cars departed from CAF Elmira Heights, NY.
Train consist was,
122 P42
48188 Cafe
61065
61062
61061
61067
61058
61059
61066
61068
61060
61063
61064
61069
520 GP38-3
Diners Next
1. AMTK 122 on the former DL&W Eastbound Siding Elmira, NY
2 & 3. NS 974 AMTK 122 Wellsburg, NY

 

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How many bags did they buy?

Uncle Joe

retcsxcfm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many bags did they buy?
>
> Uncle Joe

seventy

Wonder if the Phase III revival will last.  Personally, I think the mixed Phase III/Phase IV looks awful and presents a worse corporate image than if Amtrak had just stayed consistent with the Phase IV.

Do the bag-dorms follow the diner cars in the construction order?

Thanks

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do the bag-dorms follow the diner cars in the
> construction order?
>
> Thanks

Diners, sleepers, then bag dorms I believe. Which means the bag-dorms will likely get cancelled - or more of the order - because Amtrak will say they are out of money and can't afford them, or don't need them.

Amtrak pulls existing single level Dorm cars around 2007 and then converts two or three into business cars for use. So much for the original argument that they are "old and worn out" and "would cost too much money to maintain." Meanwhile private cars of the same age roam the system in prestine condition and VIA Rail Canada continues to refurbish their 60+ year old fleet...

Meanwhile, as the baggage cars get delivered, Amtrak de-staffs stations. With the current Amtrak business plan for LD trains (which I don't necessarily agree with - I think a VIA model should be adopted), this doesn't seem to make good sense with their new baggage cars.

 

Thanks for these nice photos.  Well done.

Jim Barton

Just what is a VIA model? That railroad operates very few trains compared to Amtrak and uses much older equipment.



jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do the bag-dorms follow the diner cars in the
> > construction order?
> >
> > Thanks
>
> Diners, sleepers, then bag dorms I believe. Which
> means the bag-dorms will likely get cancelled - or
> more of the order - because Amtrak will say they
> are out of money and can't afford them, or don't
> need them.
>
> Amtrak pulls existing single level Dorm cars
> around 2007 and then converts two or three into
> business cars for use. So much for the original
> argument that they are "old and worn out"
> and "would cost too much money to
> maintain." Meanwhile private cars of the same age
> roam the system in prestine condition and VIA
> Rail Canada continues to refurbish their 60+ year
> old fleet...
>
> Meanwhile, as the baggage cars get delivered,
> Amtrak de-staffs stations. With the current Amtrak
> business plan for LD trains (which I don't
> necessarily agree with - I think a VIA model
> should be adopted), this doesn't seem to make good
> sense with their new baggage cars.
>
>  

What's the Amfleet for between the engine and the bags?
 

Thanks for the great pictures... 

Here is a wild question:  Does anyone have an idea if CAF would ever consider (after the Amtrak order is fullfilled) building a car from the Viewliner model which could be then customized for private "PV" ownership? 

NYC4096 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the great pictures... 
>
> Here is a wild question:  Does anyone have an
> idea if CAF would ever consider (after the Amtrak
> order is fullfilled) building a car from the
> Viewliner model which could be then customized for
> private "PV" ownership? 

Who could afford it?

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NYC4096 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks for the great pictures... 
> >
> > Here is a wild question:  Does anyone have an
> > idea if CAF would ever consider (after the
> Amtrak
> > order is fullfilled) building a car from the
> > Viewliner model which could be then customized
> for
> > private "PV" ownership? 
>
> Who could afford it?

I'm sure some PV owners could afford a "shell". Essentially, purchase a car without the interior and standard windows in the customers preferred arrangement. Possibly with a/c and other electrical and plumbing equipment. So long as the car was included with a larger order for Amtrak cars so that CAF is not "custom building" a single car order, but rather including one extra car over the Amtrak order that is nearly identical. Just have your money available in advance.
I think around $2 million would be enough to purchase such a car.

 

symph1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's the Amfleet for between the engine and the
> bags?
>  
Rider car for the train crew and any mechanical employees accompanying the move.  Has been a standard of each of the special trains transporting the new cars from Elmira Heights to Albany-Rensselaer.
Andy

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ts1457 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NYC4096 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Thanks for the great pictures... 
> > >
> > > Here is a wild question:  Does anyone have
> an
> > > idea if CAF would ever consider (after the
> > Amtrak
> > > order is fullfilled) building a car from the
> > > Viewliner model which could be then
> customized
> > for
> > > private "PV" ownership? 
> >
> > Who could afford it?
>
> I'm sure some PV owners could afford a "shell".
> Essentially, purchase a car without the interior
> and standard windows in the customers preferred
> arrangement. Possibly with a/c and other
> electrical and plumbing equipment. So long as
> the car was included with a larger order for
> Amtrak cars so that CAF is not "custom building" a
> single car order, but rather including one extra
> car over the Amtrak order that is nearly
> identical. Just have your money available in
> advance.
> I think around $2 million would be enough to
> purchase such a car.
>
>  

When Gateway was still posting prices shells were going for about 10,000 to 20,000 and fully functional PVs were in the 200,000 range. PV's are generally cheap to buy, but expensive to maintain.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do the bag-dorms follow the diner cars in the
> construction order?
>
> Thanks

Yes. At least the plans as released have the order as 25 diners, 10 Bag Dorms, 25 Sleepers.

stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just what is a VIA model? That railroad operates
> very few trains compared to Amtrak and uses much
> older equipment.
>
>
>
> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Do the bag-dorms follow the diner cars in the
> > > construction order?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
> > Diners, sleepers, then bag dorms I believe.
> Which
> > means the bag-dorms will likely get cancelled -
> or
> > more of the order - because Amtrak will say
> they
> > are out of money and can't afford them, or
> don't
> > need them.
> >
> > Amtrak pulls existing single level Dorm cars
> > around 2007 and then converts two or three
> into
> > business cars for use. So much for the original
> > argument that they are "old and worn out"
> > and "would cost too much money to
> > maintain." Meanwhile private cars of the same
> age
> > roam the system in prestine condition and VIA
> > Rail Canada continues to refurbish their 60+
> year
> > old fleet...
> >
> > Meanwhile, as the baggage cars get delivered,
> > Amtrak de-staffs stations. With the current
> Amtrak
> > business plan for LD trains (which I don't
> > necessarily agree with - I think a VIA model
> > should be adopted), this doesn't seem to make
> good
> > sense with their new baggage cars.
> >
> >  

Those in the engine handle the baggage and are the only crews switched in/out along the route multiple times. LD trains have "attendants" and Chief of Onboard Services (riding all or halfway) instead of conductor and assistant conductors to switch out every eight hours or so - no multiple crew bases and hotelling of staff etc. Even people boarding at flag stops, in three feet of snow, can have their bags put in baggage car by the head-end crew. "Attendants" - coach or sleeper have multiple cars they can tend to an are responsible for lifting tickets etc. There's more to it, pros and cons, but after experiencing it MANY times on Ocean, Canadian, Chaleur, Hudson Bay, etc. I have no complaints and only praise for the onboard staff......for Amtrak - I think this would only work for the LD trains. 

This is is really a separate topic from what was mentioned on this thread (and one that has been discussed on this forum before) so I don't want to hijack......

EDIT: I'd take a "cabin for one" or "cabin for two" on the Manor or Chateau sleeper over any sleeper option Amtrak offers - when it comes to equipment. Largely because I am usually in the dome, diner, or lounge during the day and only "sleep" in the sleeper on VIA. Amtrak's LD trains offer no similar experience any more! VIA decided to keep their fleet maintained - even though they tested Superliners, passengers responded negatively to them. David Gunn said he thought Amtrak should have refurbed the Heritage sleepers than order the Viewliners. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/15 09:54 by jp1822.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Those in the engine handle the baggage and are the
> only crews switched in/out along the route
> multiple times. LD trains have "attendants" and
> Chief of Onboard Services (riding all or halfway)
> instead of conductor and assistant conductors to
> switch out every eight hours or so - no multiple
> crew bases and hotelling of staff etc. Even people
> boarding at flag stops, in three feet of snow, can
> have their bags put in baggage car by the head-end
> crew. "Attendants" - coach or sleeper have
> multiple cars they can tend to an are responsible
> for lifting tickets etc. There's more to it, pros
> and cons, but after experiencing it MANY times on
> Ocean, Canadian, Chaleur, Hudson Bay, etc. I have
> no complaints and only praise for the onboard
> staff......for Amtrak - I think this would only
> work for the LD trains. 
>

Um, no! 2 big wrong statements in your post, and I am not even a rail!

The engineer(s) will never leave the engine to attend to a baggage car.
ALL TRAINS (until one man crews are allowed) have a conductor and may have assitant conductors.

Why only 25 sleepers? I understand it is to supplement the current number of Viewliner sleepers. It doesn't make sense to get 25 diners when most long distance trains have one diner and more than one sleeper. How many Viewliners sleepers does Amtrak currently have?

dcorreia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why only 25 sleepers? I understand it is to
> supplement the current number of Viewliner
> sleepers. It doesn't make sense to get 25 diners
> when most long distance trains have one diner and
> more than one sleeper. How many Viewliners
> sleepers does Amtrak currently have?

Aren't there old diners that will be retired upon delivery of the new ones?   Conversely, I don't think there are any sleepers that are slated to be retired.  That could be the explanation for the low number of sleepers. 

I'm just crossing my fingers that all of these cars get made and delivered and placed in service.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Those in the engine handle the baggage and are
> the
> > only crews switched in/out along the route
> > multiple times. LD trains have "attendants" and
> > Chief of Onboard Services (riding all or
> halfway)
> > instead of conductor and assistant conductors
> to
> > switch out every eight hours or so - no
> multiple
> > crew bases and hotelling of staff etc. Even
> people
> > boarding at flag stops, in three feet of snow,
> can
> > have their bags put in baggage car by the
> head-end
> > crew. "Attendants" - coach or sleeper have
> > multiple cars they can tend to an are
> responsible
> > for lifting tickets etc. There's more to it,
> pros
> > and cons, but after experiencing it MANY times
> on
> > Ocean, Canadian, Chaleur, Hudson Bay, etc. I
> have
> > no complaints and only praise for the onboard
> > staff......for Amtrak - I think this would only
> > work for the LD trains. 
> >
>
> Um, no! 2 big wrong statements in your post, and I
> am not even a rail!
>
> The engineer(s) will never leave the engine to
> attend to a baggage car.
> ALL TRAINS (until one man crews are allowed) have
> a conductor and may have assitant conductors.

WHOA - This is being referenced to VIA where there are multiple crew members in the cab.

News flash - VIA abolished the role of the conductor and assistant conductor over 20 years ago!

Go up and ride the Canadian if you don't believe it. You are correct in saying that the main VIA engineer (whatever that title is officially) never leaves the cab, but the other crew member up there does. The "Chief of Onboard Services" cues the engineer how far to pull the train forward after baggage is loaded so they can then board the passengers. Seen it, experienced it. 

EDIT: Please do not quote something with the original context COMPLETELY missing. 

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/15 10:36 by jp1822.