Passenger Trains > Moodys: Users should pay some of the Hudson River Tunnel costs

The bond rating service weighs in on the financing questions around the proposed Amtrak + NJ Transit tunnel and approaches.  They see a "$1-$2 per trip" or more fee as a viable alternative.  I'm not sure that many people who already pay $400 a month for rail alone would agree with that....

Tunnel rates for vehicles are now $14 (plus parking in the city), I don't know what bus tolls are now, but that might be a good start for train tolls


User Fee

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/16 12:46 by darkcloud.

The users going in to New York City already pay outrageous tolls.  $30 or more coming from New Jersey.  If the Port Authority would use some of that money to do what it is intended for there would be money to build the tunnels.  Instead they use it to build their empire of the World Trade Center and the like along with giving the Governors of the states loads of patronage jobs to give out to their supporters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/15 16:59 by wirelessenabled.

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, how dare we make those who actually use the
> tunnel pay for it, when we can fleece the 99% of
> rest of the country who do not use it.

Your Federal taxes, and mine, pay for lots of things we will never directly benefit from. As others pay for things we benefit from and they do not. It's called living in a civilized society.

The suggestion that "tolls" be included for trains using the tunnels isn't as odd as it initially sounds.  Bus fares have a Lincoln tunnel toll built into the rates.  That pays for improvements to the tunnel (last tube was completed in the 1950s), repaving the helix, the considerable police presence, etc.

Moody's has laid the ground work for a conversation.

< Yeah, how dare we make those who actually use the tunnel pay for it, when we can fleece the 99% of rest of the country who do not use it.>

It is a 100 year investment, we will all be dead by then, interstate commerce is a FEDERAL responsibility, and we no longer have the Articles of Confederation in effect. None of that you understand.
99% of the country don't use the $16B Boston Central Artery nor the I-70 Freeway across Colorado Glenwood Canyon. Didn't mind being "fleeced" for that, did you ?

Also according to Moody's., who are nobody's  left wingers "“While the tunnel will add substantial costs to a region already paying for significant infrastructure investments, it provides a vital commuter link for a regional economy with a $1.4 trillion” annual gross domestic product"
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/15 09:16 by joemvcnj.

Use sleight of hand. 

Implement the user tax. Over time slow rate increases and increase the subsidy.

wirelessenabled Wrote:
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> The users going in to New York City already pay
> outrageous tolls.  $30 or more coming from New
> Jersey.  (snip)

some trucks pay well over a hundred bucks for a round trip passage.  it's led to a lot of phony plates and toll running.

Could the corrupt Port Authority be trusted to lockbox  a $1 surcharge for the purpose given that they gifted their own funds to NJ-DOT's Pulaski Skyway so Big Governor did not bankrupt the TTF before the road collapsed ?

Reality check girls: When the cost of transit fares get too high, people return to their cars. Follow the alorithim that begins with "automobile congestion" and see where it leads. 

Amtrak passengers already pay extra to ride through the North (Hudson) River tunnels.  It's built into the fare.
NJ Transit passengers already pay extra to ride through the North River tunnels.  It's built into the fare.

Each $1 surcharge produces $1 billion in funding over 20 years, which is likely how long the project will take starting now.

Posted from iPhone

Fares via the Hell Gate Bridge did carry a Surcharge for passengers using that routing.   

Sounds like a region that should be able to easily afford paying for its own train tunnels.

joemvcnj Wrote (quoting Moody's):
--------------------------------, it
> provides a vital commuter link for a regional
> economy with a $1.4 trillion” annual gross
> domestic product"
>  

Posted from Android

"Politics is the art of getting everyone to help pay for what you think is important."

< Sounds like a region that should be able to easily afford paying for its own train tunnels. >

Commuter contribution to GDP has nothing to do with individual income and ability to pay . NJT commuters already:

• pay the highest fares in the country
• including 31% in fare hikes since Fatso became Governor 6 years ago
• also pay another $100 a month to park
• most pay another $100 to ride the subway.
• could be encouraged to drive or to buses into Manhattan, which already has twice the trans-Hudson market share as NJT rail

Since the Highway Trust Fund and the interstate highways have been transformed from a user-pay into a socialized welfare program with $62 Billion in bailouts over the past 7 years, with $70 Billion more on the way with the next Authorization, since we can't ask people to pay 20 cents more per gallon even though the price of gas has dropped 70 cents over the past year, I have no apologies about this at all.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/15 04:49 by joemvcnj.

Nomad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like a region that should be able to easily
> afford paying for its own train tunnels.
>
Good, then I no longer have to pay for your roads, air traffic control and social security...

Actually you can easily do a search and find that the vast majority of Northeastern states are "Donor" states in that they send more money to Washington DC than they get back in goods and services.  Don't you think it would be better if we didn't send that money to Washington and your state had to pay it's own way?

Brian
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/15 04:59 by choodude.

< Each $1 surcharge produces $1 billion in funding over 20 years, which is likely how long the project will take starting now. >

For want of $1 Billion, we can delete the vanity project Moynihan "Station", to actually save $1.5 Billion, then Bergen Loop to save another $800 Million. Both were inserted by Motormouth Schumer to leverage NYS participation for the benefit of the measly several hundred Rockland and Orange County commuters who take MN West-of-Hudson trains to Secaucus to get to NYPS. Without that, "Not My Tunnel" King Cuomo would not contribute a penny.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/15 09:17 by joemvcnj.

Of course I do. Glad to see we're on the same page!

choodude Wrote:
--------------------------------- Don't you think it would be better if
> we didn't send that money to Washington and your
> state had to pay it's own way?
>
> Brian
>  

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> < Each $1 surcharge produces $1 billion in funding
> over 20 years, which is likely how long the
> project will take starting now. >
>
> For want of $1 Billion, we can delete the vanity
> project Moynihan "Sation", to actually save $1.5
> Billion, then Bergen Loop to save another $800
> Million. Both were inserted by Motormouth Schumer
> to leverage NYS participation for the benefit of
> the measly several hundred Rockland and Orange
> County commuters who take MN West-of-Hudson trains
> to Secaucus to get to NYPS. Without that, "Not My
> Tunnel" King Cuomo would not contribute a penny.

That's an excellent example of how having  a lot of seniority in Congress gives you the ability to get things done.