Passenger Trains > For Amtrak employees regarding Biz Class

For any Amtrak employees on here, the company has a problem with how it is selling business class on the Cardinal and Crescent.  My son is on the Crescent now, returning from New Orleans.  He has been in business class both directions.  On the trip down there were 8 passengers total, on average, in his car.  On the return there are just 4!

Here is the problem:  You cannot find the business class seats when booking!  It is there, but hidden in the sleeper area.  Someone traveling in coach because they cannot afford hundreds more for a sleeper will NOT got over to the sleeper section and scroll through the options, which is where Amtrak has hidden the business class seats.  The customer will instead pick the value or saver fare and be done.  THEY NEVER EVEN SEE THE BUSINESS CLASS OPTION!  Clearly this is happening or more than 4 seats would be sold on a pretty popular train.

Please consider a pop-up when someone books coach that tells them about it or make it more visible somehow.  Otherwise the whole idea will die.  Not because it is bad idea, but because it has been horribly implemented.

 

Well said.  Good advice.

It is like one faction wants it and another doesn't, so it is made undiscoverable deliberately so it will fail.
Or I am giving them too much credit for being devious ?

(WAY) Too much credit.
SR

It may be a matter of systems architecture that the business class option is inside the sleeper options. Installing a radio button to bring up business class may be a "major" change in the web design and system engine which Amtrak may not want to do.

Nonetheless, it would be a lot easier to add a line of text to the page saying something like "Business Class may be available on this train. Please toggle the sleeper button for available premium services on this train"

Business Class link.
 
Crescent Business Class link

Does anyone know of any other companies out there that are as inept as Amtrak? I mean really, you introduce a new service offering on a train, committing a whole car to it (which isn't cheap), and most prospective passengers won't even find that option when making a reservation online, as they probably won't click on the "premium" icon, as the first item shown is one of the (usually) expensive rooms. The numbers from the above report, although they might not be completely representative of how the service is doing, are not a good sign. Not only that, but checking a LAX-SEA business class seat price on the Coast Starlight in June, it is only $12.00 more than the flexible coach ticket on the same train. If you don't put A LOT of bodies in that car, you are losing even more money than you would if you ran it as a regular coach on that train. Not sure who oversees this operation at Amtrak, but it sure doesn't seem very well thought out or implemented. If I ran my business that way, I'd probably be going out of business in short order.

The new thruway bus connecting the Southwest Chief and Heartland Flyer has yet to be posted on the Alert section.       Maybe if we do not tell anyone, the service will go away and get rid of the extra work load!.  It is loaded in Arrow if you ask for the service....who did that?

Right, so IF you are navigating around and reading about the train you MIGHT see this information.  If you travel the train more than once you will not be reading about it.  You will just make your reservation and miss it.

Further, I went to the second link, and yes, info on business class is there.  Then I searched on a trip using the reservation section to the left of the description.  It took me to the typical reservation results page with no visible business class.  Again, the user has to go to the right, which is not intuitive when searching for coach, and try to find business class.  

They are losing business hand over fist with this stuff.  Stupid.  Just stupid.  "Hey, we just introduced something kinda cool on some of our trains!!  Try to find it!!"  

Lurch_in_ABQ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Business Class link.
>  
> Crescent Business Class link

For May 5, business class is about $30 cheaper than a regular coach seat from Atlanta to New Orleans.  $114 vs $138 for 13 hours



 

From what I've witnessed as an Amtrak passenger, and, being a retired mainframe computer consultant, my guess is that the what we, as passengers see, is nothing more than a 'pretty face' that overlays/interfaces directly with the original - by todays' standards, archaic - Sabre reservation system that they bought from one of the airlines not long after the Amtrak startup 45 years ago today.  Throw in the fact that there is nobody still working there that knows 'the guts' of Sabre and in all liklihood, noone understands enough IBM mainframe assembler language to be able to intelligently fix/modify Sabre.  I can name several Fortune 500 companies that are in exactly the same technology boat.   Those companies and Amtrak alike, have to understand a lot of the 'why was it done this way' in Sabre before they can proceed with making changes. 

Then they have to prove it all out and make sure they didn't break something.  Think of it as having an antique 1940 Ford 3 window Coupe and being told to drop in a brand new Chevy engine with a turbocharger on it.  After finishing all the changes made just to make it fit, and starting the engine, then it's necessary to prove it can still be driven safely down the road at 50 mph.  The reality may be that 'they' had to remove the fenders to get the engine and exhaust to fit, but now water sprays the windshield and in the engine compartment when hitting a puddle, and the brakes stopped working, too.  Everything that the old Ford could do previously has to work exactly as before, but with a completely new engine.  Hopefully, the old transmission and differential can take the added torque from the new 500hp engine just put in!

So, the easiest solution was to make a relatively minor change to 'the face' of the reservation system (that passengers see), and by only adding a new (room) accomodation type to it, the original Sabre system never had to be touched, thus speeding up overall implementation time - thereby saving money in the process!     

Well so much for all those ITT Gradumatates.

BRAtkinson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what I've witnessed as an Amtrak passenger,
> and, being a retired mainframe computer
> consultant, my guess is that the what we, as
> passengers see, is nothing more than a 'pretty
> face' that overlays/interfaces directly with the
> original - by todays' standards, archaic - Sabre
> reservation system that they bought from one of
> the airlines not long after the Amtrak startup 45
> years ago today.  Throw in the fact that there is
> nobody still working there that knows 'the guts'
> of Sabre and in all liklihood, noone understands
> enough IBM mainframe assembler language to be able
> to intelligently fix/modify Sabre.  I can name
> several Fortune 500 companies that are in exactly
> the same technology boat.   Those companies and
> Amtrak alike, have to understand a lot of the 'why
> was it done this way' in Sabre before they can
> proceed with making changes. 
>
> Then they have to prove it all out and make sure
> they didn't break something.  Think of it as
> having an antique 1940 Ford 3 window Coupe and
> being told to drop in a brand new Chevy engine
> with a turbocharger on it.  After finishing all
> the changes made just to make it fit, and starting
> the engine, then it's necessary to prove it can
> still be driven safely down the road at 50 mph. 
> The reality may be that 'they' had to remove the
> fenders to get the engine and exhaust to fit, but
> now water sprays the windshield and in the engine
> compartment when hitting a puddle, and the brakes
> stopped working, too.  Everything that the old
> Ford could do previously has to work exactly as
> before, but with a completely new engine. 
> Hopefully, the old transmission and differential
> can take the added torque from the new 500hp
> engine just put in!
>
> So, the easiest solution was to make a relatively
> minor change to 'the face' of the reservation
> system (that passengers see), and by only adding a
> new (room) accomodation type to it, the original
> Sabre system never had to be touched, thus
> speeding up overall implementation time - thereby
> saving money in the process!     

The same problem exists with business class on the Coast Starlight.  I had to discover it in the sleeper section as noted.  My wife and I, also, were two of eight in business class from LA - Oakland.  What a way to sell a really good service.

A few days later I was speaking to AMTRAK reservations about a new reservation and mentioned this problem to her.  She looked at the screen and was surprised.  She said she was going to show it to her supervisor, but I suspect this is a programming issue that is just going to be ignored.

BRAtkinson ---
Thank you very much for the excellent explanation of
what the problem really is.  Your metaphor is excellent!
I had no idea any company was still using such antiquated
computer systems.  I am not an expert, but it sems to me
that all such companies need to bring knowledgeable
folks out of retirement who still can "talk" to these ancient
computers in their own language -- and do this ASAP, before
everyone who has this incredibly important knkowledge
forgets most of it or passes away.  The window of opportunity
to do this is closing!

They need to buy that metaphorical 500-hp Chevy, and forget
about trying to retrofit that metaphorical 1940 Ford.   There are
bright, capable folks out there who could help to keep things
going during the transition from one system to another.
It's only an engineering problem, after all!  <g>
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/16 01:00 by Margaret_SP_fan.

So in other words, Amtrak's computer system is as screwed up as their rail operations. For a possible solution, why not have the attendants in the coaches offer up Business Class for x amount of dollars to coach  passengers as an upgrade?  Of course someone on the train would have to process the payment so that might be WAY to much additional work for these people. Further, for those of us smart enough to find Business Class on the web site, it's probably better to have a rather empty car for a good nights sleep.

"....• This'addresses'a'lot'of'issues'but'not'a'core'problem'of'the'long'term' maintenance'of'the'reservation'system'code'base' – Arrow'is'based'on'the'Braniff'“Cowboy”'system'(PARS)'meaning'some'code'is' 40+'years'old' – A'high'level'of'skill'is'required'to'maintain'this'and'the'mean'age'of'the' available'workforce'is'near'retirement' • Larger'shops'can'deal'with'this'issue'as'they'can'spread'critical'skills'over'a'larger' staff,'if'Amtrak'just'loses'one'programmer,'there'is'a'noticeable'resultng'skill'gap' – No'vendor'markets'a'suitable'complete'replacement'and'it'is'too'expensive' and'high'risk'to'write'again'from'scratch' • Nothing'works'like'Arrow'and'would'need'a'high'degree'of'customization'so'as'not' to'impact'critical'business'functions'...."

Mr Google offers a second opinion on Amtrak's Arrow genesis LINK

Many companies took advantage of the Y2K hysteria to throw out their old systems and install (then) new operations.

Others, including IRS and some government agencies, made do with patches, duct tape, and prayer.

Posted from Android

Do we know it is IBM Assembler language as the engine, or could it be CICS or IMS/DC ?
This stuff is no longer taught is college, except in India. Even there, there is no Assembler nor Fortran taught. Only Baby Boomer generation IT people know it, the very people corporate America want off their payroll. It is plentiful in some large insurance companies, as much as they try to ignore it or hide it. There is no ROI case to be made replace it. Some Fortran-IV Actuarial programs still run at my former employer. No American or Indian employee knows it. Everyone is afraid to replace it as they cannot read the original source code.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/16 06:56 by joemvcnj.

Sounds like Arrow is a decrepit anachronism, as is Amtrak, with the exception of the NEC.

I never had a problem finding business class in the website. It is in the premium area as expected.It is certainly not "hidden".



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/16 07:00 by nedzarp.