Passenger Trains > Heartland Flyer anxiety in Oklahoma

From Mass Transit today via McClatchy news service:

'May 01--State lawmakers are facing tough economic decisions, and supporters of passenger rail are concerned funding for the Heartland Flyer could be slashed this year.

"Our economy runs on transportation corridors regardless of mode," said Evan Stair, president of Passenger Rail of Oklahoma, during a meeting Saturday at the Norman Depot. "We're pushing the passenger rail aspect because we think it's more operational and efficient than maintaining and expanding highways."

The history of passenger rail in Oklahoma has been spotty with the state losing its Amtrak line in 1979 and then regaining a route from Oklahoma City to Fort Worth with stops in Norman, Ardmore and other cities along Interstate 35.'

Full article at:

OK: Future Uncertain for Heartland Flyer

 

What is the ridership on this route?

is this the train with an engine on BOTH ends and approx. 4 cars that i have seen in the past?

66

Yes it is. Surely in OKC there s a place to turn the power and probably the entire four car train to save one unit. Will they do it?   No

Train runs with an NPCU on one end. So only 1 engine generally on the north end.

Last time I saw it there were only two cars on the train.  That was a weekday, last month.

OliveHeights Wrote:
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> Last time I saw it there were only two cars on the
> train.  That was a weekday, last month.

that is amazing..............

66

My wife and I road the train from Oak to Fort Worth as part of a bus trip tp San Porado Island Tx. We boarded the train with our car full and the other two cars were very full and as the Amtrak Conductor pointed out this was not a normal passanger load, he was happey with the load we had 3 Superliner Cars. per the Conductor 2 superliner are the norm.

Wes 

Ridership is relatively low, as can be expected with a substandard corridor service running just once per day.  A corridor like this needs a minimum of 3 daily trains each way.  It's entirely predictable.  There are busy days, like holidays, but on many days the service carries a minimal number of riders.  It does provide a connection to the national system, so that's a good thing.

It also doesn't help that the service fails to go to Dallas, the largest city, although the availability of a local rail connection partly addresses this deficiency.  I would have preferred a dedicated bus to Dallas from the outset, with minimal connecting times and guaranteed schedules....all sold as one Amtrak ticket package and avoiding the uncertainties of multiple providers.

Meanwhile, Oklahoma has wasted its time dreaming about other one train per day services -- none of which have gone anywhere.

In September 2014, for example, both trains carried 5,002 passengers....about 83 per day per direction.  By September 2015, ridership had dropped 11% to 4,453, about 74 per day per direction.  Not the worst performer in the Amtrak system, but likely lower than in previous years and without any plan to get better numbers -- the excitement of newness and novelty is off, and the train is carrying people for whom it works, but isn't competing well for the general traveler.   Other months can be busier, but September gives a good illustration.  Everyone can cite a ridership experience when the train carried an extraordinary load, like 180 passengers, but there are days with 40 passengers in the mix as well.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/16 16:41 by reindeerflame.

There are plenty of other one train per day daytrains that do better than this train.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> There are plenty of other one train per day
> daytrains that do better than this train.

Better from a ridership standpoint yes. But once a day operation is pretty much a disaster from a shared facilities cost standpoint

Posted from iPhone

Keep in mind that some of this ridership is going to other trains, both southwest and to the north.  Folks ride from OKC to Los Angeles,  Ride OKC to San Antonio, Ride to Longview TX and now with the connecting bus between Newton KS and OKC,   transfers can be made in both directions with the Southwest Chief.   On reader on TO,  just did a trip from Philadelphia to Ft Worth via Newton and return on the Eagle.  This is an example of how a short haul corridor train can add revenue to long haul trains.  Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle and the Sunset Limited are all part of the mix.  Never mind east of Chicago were the Cardinal, Capital and Pennsylvanian.

This is not to say the route should not have far more service.

Removing the train would not save much money for mechanical staffing at FT Worth, since this is also the 100 mile inspection for the Texas Eagle.

A thruway bus would work well to Dallas.  Extending the train to Dallas would cost  lots and lots more, as the equipment would need to be returned to Ft Worth for servicing.

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> It also doesn't help that the service fails to go
> to Dallas, the largest city, although the
> availability of a local rail connection partly
> addresses this deficiency. 
Partly is correct.  A few years ago I completed an OKC-Ft Worth-Dallas round trip using TRE for the Ft Worth-Dallas leg.
That was on a weekday; TRE does not run on Sundays...

If Amtrak would just run the train Fort Worth to Kansas City, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Didn't realize that the TRE did not run on Sundays...seems like a glaring service omission.


casco17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It also doesn't help that the service fails to
> go
> > to Dallas, the largest city, although the
> > availability of a local rail connection partly
> > addresses this deficiency. 
> Partly is correct.  A few years ago I completed
> an OKC-Ft Worth-Dallas round trip using TRE for
> the Ft Worth-Dallas leg.
> That was on a weekday; TRE does not run on
> Sundays...

mp51w Wrote:
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> If Amtrak would just run the train Fort Worth to
> Kansas City, we wouldn't be having this
> conversation.

This train started out as state supported by the state of Oklahoma.  At some point Texas kicked in some cash to keep it running.  Oklahoma has talked of extending it North or East, but doesn't have the money.  Now, with Kansas being broke, there is no way they will ever pony up any money to extend the train.  We know Amtrak doesn't have any money to expand the national system.  Texas has said they will have $3 billion less to work with in the next legislature in 2017.

It is a good train to connect Oklahoma with the Eagle, but it doesn't serve Texans very well with its late arrival in Oklahoma City.  Alas, it is a route you can drive faster than the train and the train doesn't stop at the main attraction, the WinStar Casino.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/16 08:48 by OliveHeights.

Kansas broke?   How can that be?  I thought Gov Brownie's tax cuts and the resulting flood of trickle downs would flood the state with money.  They must have gotten the Laffer Curve backwards or something.  The Curve is well-named though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/16 10:29 by masterphots.

If this train were to be restructured as add/drop cars of 3&4 at Newton, it would do better as a Texas Chief, even if terminated at FtW. So many more markets and city pairs would open. Right now, it is a glorified Fort Worth commuter train with expected results. Then perhaps it be the San Antonio train, rather than the Texas Eagle. It would be interesting to study the pro and con of that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/16 11:04 by joemvcnj.

One can wonder all day long whether running a single train this way or that way is better than the way it's being done now.

As a transit manager once told his board, "we have to decide whether we're operating transit service or an ambulance service."

Also, once a train service is introduced, the work has just begun.  Unfortunately, many assume that the job is 100% accomplished, much like a former president announced on an aircraft carrier with respect to a war.

Oklahoma needed to work on future improvements, like adding additional frequencies, adding bus connections to Dallas, and the like.  Instead, it seems Oklahoma has rested on its laurels.  Now, a few years later, the service begins to be vulnerable.  And so it goes.