Passenger Trains > Amtrak Silver Star in better days...

1994 at Lorton, VA on the RF&P Subdivision.

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Excellent video! Long live Phase III!  Question, why were there coaches on each end of the train?

Amtrak288 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent video! Long live Phase III!  Question,
> why were there coaches on each end of the train?

That was during the time when the train was split into two sections after it got to Florida; half of the train went to Tampa and terminated there (Tampa used to have a full maintenance base and crew base) and half of the train terminated in Miami.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/16 13:21 by johnpage.

Interesting that coaches were on the ends with sleepers in the middle. This would have coach passengers walking through the sleepesr to get to the dinner. Present arrangement is better. Wonder why as I believe at that time there was still a switcher in Jax for the MHC car that could have switched them properly: baggage, coaches, cafe, diner, sleepers.

A lot more seats back then!  7 coaches vs. today's 5 on 97/98 and 4 on 91/92.  To be fair to Amtrak, I don't believe low fare airlines had nearly as much service between the Northeast Florida back then.  Still, 420 seats then vs 300 and 240 now.  How many coaches did 97/98 run with back then?

Riding the Silver Star and Silver Meteor frequently in those days was a bit of a challenge for sleeping car passengers. When the train was split (at times in Jacksonville, at other times in Auburndale in Central Florida; when the split was still in Jacksonville the Miami section still traveled over the old Seaboard Air Line main line via Ocala and Wildwood), the diner went to Miami and the lounge car went to Tampa, providing food service to both sections without having "two" of everything when the train was joined together.

The coach passengers, whether on the front or back of the train, had to go through the sleeping cars to get to the other, so there was always lots of traffic and noise in what otherwise should have been quiet sleeping cars, including the Slumbercoaches. This was before the coffee/juice/snacks offerings that came with Viewliner sleeping cars, so there was no worry about coach passengers filching amenities from the sleeping cars.

Up until the Viewliners displaced the Heritage sleeping cars, the trains were typically 18 cars long, and the load factors were high.

With the Viewliners came smaller trains, and the dreaded "common consists" of the Meteor and Star and later the Silver Palm, along with the Lake Shore Limited and Crescent, which also use Viewliner sleeping cars. The idea of the common consist was the Viewliners held more passengers than the Heritage sleepers, so fewer cars were needed. But, arbitrarily, the amount of coaches were also cut. Keep in mind that with Heritage equipment, the Crescent also used to add/drop sleeping cars in Atlanta. A packed Crescent often left Atlanta heading north with 20 cars daily, including the sleepers added there. With the common consist scheme, that's when consists for the Florida trains began to be swapped at Sunnyside Yard in New York City for Lake Shore Limited and Crescent consists so the equipment could all cycle into the main single level maintenance base in Hialeah in South Florida.

In the process to "save money" (sigh), Amtrak also closed the Tampa crew base and maintenance base, creating the silly circuitous route the Silver Star uses today so Tampa kept service. At the same time, the Silver Meteor stopped serving Tampa directly, and Meteor passengers wishing to go Tampa ride a Thruway bus from Orlando to Tampa, with a stop in Lakeland.

Tampa ridership plummeted, but has steadily climbed back in the two decades since this debacle, even with only one actual daily train calling at the majestically restored Tampa Union Station.

All of the Florida service desperately needs to be rethought. Florida last year enjoyed just a hair over 100 million annual out of state visitors, both domestic and international. That is one of the reasons why All Aboard Florida, when it debuts next year, will become the passenger rail king in Florida. The All Aboard Florida folks understand the economics of Florida tourism and transportation, while Amtrak in the past 25 years has done everything it could to make travel to, from, and around Florida more difficult.
 

Here are some Florida numbers from an old report:

In FY 1993, Florida was served by Auto Train which had a daily capacity of 484 per terminal departure (single level equipment). The Sunset Limited had a tri-weekly capacity of 300 per terminal departure. The Silver Meteor had a daily capacity of 549 per terminal departure, the Silver Star had a daily capacity of 549 per terminal departure, and the Palmetto had a daily capacity of 216 per terminal departure. The Heritage fleet Silver Meteor and Silver Star each had two baggage cars, three sleepers, diner, buffet diner, lounge, and nine Amfleet II coaches, for an 18 car consist. The Palmetto was an all-coach day train, operating Jacksonville-New York with a baggage car, cafe car, and four Amfleet coaches.

In FY 1998, Florida was served by Auto Train which had a daily capacity of 662 per terminal departure. The Sunset Limited had a tri-weekly capacity of 300 per terminal departure. The Silver Meteor had a daily capacity of 280 per terminal departure, the Silver Star had a daily capacity of 280 per terminal departure, and the Silver Palm had a daily capacity of 280 per terminal departure. The Viewliner common consist was a baggage car, crew car, two Viewliner sleepers, diner, lounge, and four Amfleet II coaches.

In 1993, both the Meteor and Star split in Jacksonville.

In 1993, the Sunset Limited was extended from New Orleans to Miami.

In 1994, the Palmetto was extended to Tampa, adding a diner and sleeping cars, and one of the other trains stopped Tampa service. Extending the Palmetto to Tampa ended all-daylight service between Jacksonville and Washington.

In 1995 the Mercer cuts were implemented, discontinuing the Palmetto (cutting it back to Savannah, Georgia as the southern terminus), leaving only one daily train serving Tampa. Later, the Tampa crew and maintenance bases were closed.

In 1996 the Auto Train was converted to a Superliner consist.

In 1997 the Sunset Limited was cut back from Miami to Sanford in Central Florida, just east of Orlando.

In 1997 and 1998, the Viewliner common consists were put in place on the Silver trains.

In 1998, the Sunset was extended from Sanford all the way into Orlando. (A much-needed 22 mile extension which put the train where passengers wanted to go instead of into a small, suburban town on the far side of Orlando from the Disney/Universal/SeaWorld resort area.)

Here is what happened to Florida ridership during all of that time:

FY 1993 - 1,262,059
FY 1994 - 1,167,838
FY 1995 - 1,125,571
FY 1996 - 1,002,009
FY 1997 - 928,252
FY 1998 - 976,301

This was one of those dismal periods when Amtrak began to starve itself into prosperity.

It still hasn't recovered.

 

johnpage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here are some Florida numbers from an old report:
>
> In FY 1993, Florida was served by Auto Train which
> had a daily capacity of 484 per terminal
> departure (single level equipment). The Sunset
> Limited had a tri-weekly capacity of 300 per
> terminal departure. The Silver Meteor had a daily
> capacity of 549 per terminal departure, the
> Silver Star had a daily capacity of 549 per
> terminal departure, and the Palmetto had a daily
> capacity of 216 per terminal departure. The
> Heritage fleet Silver Meteor and Silver Star each
> had two baggage cars, three sleepers, diner,
> buffet diner, lounge, and nine Amfleet II coaches,
> for an 18 car consist. The Palmetto was an
> all-coach day train, operating Jacksonville-New
> York with a baggage car, cafe car, and four
> Amfleet coaches.
>
> In FY 1998, Florida was served by Auto Train which
> had a daily capacity of 662 per terminal
> departure. The Sunset Limited had a tri-weekly
> capacity of 300 per terminal departure. The Silver
> Meteor had a daily capacity of 280 per terminal
> departure, the Silver Star had a daily capacity of
> 280 per terminal departure, and the Silver Palm
> had a daily capacity of 280 per terminal
> departure. The Viewliner common consist was a
> baggage car, crew car, two Viewliner sleepers,
> diner, lounge, and four Amfleet II coaches.
>
> In 1993, both the Meteor and Star split in
> Jacksonville.
>
> In 1993, the Sunset Limited was extended from New
> Orleans to Miami.
>
> In 1994, the Palmetto was extended to Tampa,
> adding a diner and sleeping cars, and one of the
> other trains stopped Tampa service. Extending the
> Palmetto to Tampa ended all-daylight service
> between Jacksonville and Washington.
>
> In 1995 the Mercer cuts were implemented,
> discontinuing the Palmetto (cutting it back to
> Savannah, Georgia as the southern terminus),
> leaving only one daily train serving Tampa. Later,
> the Tampa crew and maintenance bases were closed.
>
> In 1996 the Auto Train was converted to a
> Superliner consist.
>
> In 1997 the Sunset Limited was cut back from Miami
> to Sanford in Central Florida, just east of
> Orlando.
>
> In 1997 and 1998, the Viewliner common consists
> were put in place on the Silver trains.
>
> In 1998, the Sunset was extended from Sanford all
> the way into Orlando. (A much-needed 22 mile
> extension which put the train where passengers
> wanted to go instead of into a small, suburban
> town on the far side of Orlando from the
> Disney/Universal/SeaWorld resort area.)
>
> Here is what happened to Florida ridership during
> all of that time:
>
> FY 1993 - 1,262,059
> FY 1994 - 1,167,838
> FY 1995 - 1,125,571
> FY 1996 - 1,002,009
> FY 1997 - 928,252
> FY 1998 - 976,301
>
> This was one of those dismal periods when Amtrak
> began to starve itself into prosperity.
>
> It still hasn't recovered.
>
The numbers above speak for themselves and that's why train service to/from Florida should be "desperately......rethought."

Florida is down to two trains not counting Auto Train these days. The trains SHOULD split at Jacksonville and the Palmetto needs to return to Jacksonville or it should become the Silver Palm once again and go all the way from Miami to NYC - perhaps when the new sleepers arrive.....cough......cough.......I regularly took the Silver Meteor from NYP (departure at 7 pm) to Savannah or Charleston (arrival between 7 and 9 am). Full day of work on Friday - weekend in Savannah and then returned on Monday morning to office in NYP. I read on another forum in TO - person left Chicago on the Lake Shore and arrived at 7:30 am or so at Buffalo-Depew. That's a great overnight journey. Amtrak has eliminated so much of this in their schedule. If they make these overnight "hotel on wheels" trains - maybe they'll get more patronage. Instead Amtrak "seems" to schedule to what is more convenient for "Amtrak the company" and not "Amtrak their patrons."   

There is an additional hour now to Raleigh because of the loss of the Norlina track.
Then you get dragged all the way to Tampa and back?  Why would anyone want to
ride the Silver Star all the way to Miami?  Probably, some of the worst riding track I've been on, South of Hamlet, NC!
Just a terrible train.  In all honesty, I wouldn't reccomend it to anyone!  Well, maybe if there's a cheap viewliner room available.
JohnPage, Thanks for your well researched comments on what has happened to the Florida service.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/16 15:51 by mp51w.

>
> Florida is down to two trains not counting Auto
> Train these days. The trains SHOULD split at
> Jacksonville.

Too late now for that good idea.CSX WILL NOT
allow any passenger trains on it's exSAL line
to Wildwood.Nor the Wildwood-Tampa section
that is exACL as well.
Trains 97-98  run Jax-Auburndale on exACL
to Miami on exSAL.
Trains 91-92 run Jax-Auburndale-Tampa on exACL.
Tampa-Auburndale goming and going on exACL
Auburndale-Miami exSAL.

Uncle Joe,Seffner,Fl.