Passenger Trains > 10 PV's on #5 tomorrow

There will be 10 PV's on train # 5 the Westbound Zephyr out of Chicago tomorrow, September 10th departing at 2:00 PM. They are on their way to Denver to join 21 PV's on this years AAPRCO, City of Spokane, Special. The train will operate north on BNSF to Cheyenne, WY, Casper, WY, Livingston, MT, Missoula, MT and Spokane, WA. If TO members are taking photos please remember to be safe out there.  

Still departing Denver on 9/13 at 9:00 am? === === = === JLH

Yes sir,

That is the plan departing at 9:00 AM from the BNSF yard.

There will be four more PVs on Sunday's No. 5 heading for Denver as well.

Interesting.  Where is Amtrak getting the extra locomotives
they need so the CZ has enough power to keep the schedule? 
From what I have read, Amktrak is very short of locomotives.

AAPRCO really needs to have its own locomotives.  That
would both relieve their need to depend on power-short
Amtrak and give AAPRCO the flexibility to run wherever and
whenever they wanted to

I would appreciate photos of the Amtrak trains that have AAPRCO
members' cars behind them -- showing the cars, please.  TIA!

Would one or two trips per year would justify the cost of buying locos? Then there would be storage issues. And each year, the trips originate and end at different locations. The AAPRCO train will need at least two locos. So would assume one of the locos would come off of No. 5 tomorrow for the train...and another on Sunday?  Just speculation. Looking forward to the trip in Birch Grove and Moonlight Dome.

I'll be on those cars as well tomorrow. Look forward to seeing you onboard.
 

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would one or two trips per year would justify the
> cost of buying locos? Then there would be storage
> issues. And each year, the trips originate and end
> at different locations. The AAPRCO train will need
> at least two locos. So would assume one of the
> locos would come off of No. 5 tomorrow for the
> train...and another on Sunday?  Just speculation.
> Looking forward to the trip in Birch Grove and
> Moonlight Dome.

People tend to focus on individual events without seeing them as a part of a larger picture.  A poster in another AAPRCO thread was lambasting the planners of Denver Union Station beccause there was not enough room there to store the 20 private cars for the AAPRCO train.  Never mind that it will be a very long time (if ever) before 20 private cars come to Denver at the same time again.

The is Amtrak, for a 20 car train out of Denver, they may need 3 locomotives.

Did they not run the train to Napa a couple years ago with 3 Amtrak units?


Gary

Posted from iPhone

Do we have any Wyoming/Montana/Idaho TO railfans that can post a few shots of this convention train en route? 

andersonb109 Wrote:
>>Would one or two trips per year would justify the cost of buying locos? Then there would be storage issues>>

No need to store them during the year. Lease them back to Amtrak or a commute operation.

Curious question, would this train be trackable, on Track-a-Train?
Dave in Msla

Margaret_SP_fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting.  Where is Amtrak getting the extra
> locomotives
> they need so the CZ has enough power to keep the
> schedule? 
> From what I have read, Amktrak is very short of
> locomotives.
>
> AAPRCO really needs to have its own locomotives. 
> That
> would both relieve their need to depend on
> power-short
> Amtrak and give AAPRCO the flexibility to run
> wherever and
> whenever they wanted to
>
> I would appreciate photos of the Amtrak trains
> that have AAPRCO
> members' cars behind them -- showing the cars,
> please.  TIA!

If two locomotives can keep Auto Train going, I'd think two ought to do at least okay on this train Chicago to Denver.

Eagle of Sept 8 failed right out of Chicago and with two locomoitves

Chief of Sept 7, failed in Colorado and BNSF is bringing it to LA.

Amtrak is doing just as intended!.

Anyone planning to travel anywhere on the corrider between LA and San Diego on October weekends, better make new plans.
Several shut downs account  "Track and bridge work".   Just an advance tip, info may not be available yet on the web or the wonderful phone gal!

Two locomotives for AAPRCO? No problem! I nominate SP 4449 and AT&SF 3751.

Could purchase a pair of SD70ACe's (or some variant) and pull off the HEP from one of the inverters. Alaska RR does this. Then lease the units to a fright RR in the off season. 

Or, just purchase a HEP B unit/car of some kind then you could run any locomotive up front. Does the train need HEP? I'd guess yes, but also guess that most/all of the private cars have their own generator? I don't know, just speculating. 

Mike ONeill
Parker, CO

Face it, Amtrak provides extra units throughout the year for a number of diferent special trains.
Get over it. Where do they come from? Dunno, but they can find them when they want to.

Private cars en-route probably do add some electrical demand to the HEP(head end power) systems.  As far as I know, 18 HEP-using cars remains the maximum allowed to avoid stressing the under-car cables of Amtrak's cars, or the connection cables between the locomotives.  The Autotrain exceeds that length of course, but the trailing autoracks are not consumers of HEP. 

Electrical power demands increase in higher elevation and desert areas, and under extremely hot (or extremely cold) weather conditions.  This is true of both the private cars, and also of Amtrak's cars.  So under extreme environmental conditions, a third locomotive is recommended. Traction demands also increase in mountain areas, such as will be encountered by this year's AAPRCO special.  Even regular Amtrak trains probably should have a third locomotive over Raton Pass, for example, or west of Denver on the Moffatt Route, but no longer do.

 If not for that environmental factor, the traction from two standard locomotives would be fine.

AAPRCO typically utilizes the HEP from Amtrak locomotives while in static display at the convention site.  The consist is broken up into several shorter strings, usually for the convenience of the terminal location, where parking spaces may be at a premium.  If ground power is available, it is utilized, but there are very few locations left in North America that have sufficient available ground power.  In the past, the organization has leased large industrial-grade generators to supplement, or on occasion to completely power the convention train while on static location in the host convention city or at other en-route stops. 

The changes that have come recently with respect to Amtrak's diesel fleet are several-fold:
First, an extra ten to twenty locomotives are now assigned to the northeast corridor, for relief purposes (due to failing electric locomotives, failing electric substation systems, and caternary problems. One are two also are filling in for F59's on the west coast, which are undergoing heavy maintenance cycles of their own).
Secondly, some commuter trains that were slated to have two locomotives have been reduced to one, more due to state budgetary problems and delays in implementation of "higher-speed rail" in commuter corridors.
Some intercity trains that probably should have a third locomotive to handle mountain grades, like the Empire Builder, California Zephyr, and Southwest Chief, no longer do.
Thirdly, maintenance intervals have been reduced across the board.  Locomotives that used to layover a day for service no longer do, and go out again same day. Protection locomotives that used to be stationed at strategic points have been moved back to active duty  Amtrak now out-sources its protection duties to freight railroads by leasing extra power on an ad-hoc basis.

The occasional use of an extra locomotive for the ever-decreasing number of special trains and exhibition moves is not going to result in the downfall of Amtrak as we know it.
The use of one or two extra locomotives for AAPRCO will actually generate for cash income for Amtrak over the next few days than their placement anywhere else possibly could.
Deferred maintenance, inadequate advance capital planning, ponzi-scheme budget maneuvers, and "head-in-the-sand" politics at Amtrak and in government in general, while not new, are much bigger threats than an occasional excursion train move.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/16 06:45 by NewRiverGeorge.

If there are no "Amtrak" business or executive trains moving across the country then there should be enough locos. 

there were at least two locos pulling Boardman's special train around (maybe 3 at one time) and then the exhibit train had a couple more that weekend. 

Amtrak needs the New "Charger" locos to take over on some state routes. Cab cars for more Midwest routes would have also helped.......instead of locos on both ends for some Midwestern trains (if not majority).