Passenger Trains > With an eye towards the present... CA HSR Cuts Capacity in half

CA High Speed Rail cuts system capacity in half7 ABC News

http://abc7news.com/traffic/ca-high-speed-rail-cuts-system-capacity-in-half-/1567666/
Friday, October 21, 2016 10:09PMSACRAMENTO, Calif. (KGO) --California's High Speed Rail Authority has cut planned capacity on the system by half.

The authority says trains will run with fewer cars that originally proposed, 10 cars instead of 20 cars.

That would allow station platforms to be shorter and construction on them to be cheaper.

The authority also cut the maximum speed of trains inside tunnel sections from 220 to 200 miles per
hour. Slowing the trains would allow for smaller tunnels, which are cheaper to construct.


Wonder what's next and how much more?

I'd like to see the system built - but I'd also like to send a spacecraft to Andromeda.

/Mitch

maybe we could combine the two projects and send Calfornia High Speed rail to Andromeda?

On a serious note, the New Hampshire legislature issued a charter to the Mount Washington Cog Railway to construct their line all the way to the moon.  To my knowledge, it's the only US to have such an expansive charter.

Posturing for the election.

A boondoggle only half the size and 10% slower is still a boondoggle.

Mgoldman Wrote in part:
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> 
> The authority also cut the maximum speed of trains
> inside tunnel sections from 220 to 200 miles per
> hour. Slowing the trains would allow for smaller
> tunnels, which are cheaper to construct.
>
 
Can some engineering type explain why slowing trains from 220 to 200mph would reduce the size of tunnels and by how much?

Thanks
WP17

WP17 Wrote:
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> Can some engineering type explain why slowing
> trains from 220 to 200mph would reduce the size of
> tunnels and by how much?
>
> Thanks
> WP17

Maybe the faster the train goes in the more room you need for the air to escape around it.

WP17 Wrote:
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> Can some engineering type explain why slowing
> trains from 220 to 200mph would reduce the size of
> tunnels and by how much?
>
> Thanks
> WP17

I can't explain in specifics, since I don't have the necessary numbers, but the Japanese have resorted to some very fancy aerodynamics to reduce the effects from air pressure shockwaves inside tunnels, ESPECIALLY when trains meet at ~200 mph... or ~400 mph difference in speed between the meeting trains.

Also, here's a hint of what engineers are dealing with inside the tunnels:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?6,3470862

So in theory, larger tunnels, more "buffer" from the effects of the shockwaves... but as I said before, I have no concrete numbers to explain how the sizes (and speeds) compare.

Anway, as far as I'm concerned, the person who made this decision probably "borrowed" the idea from what the Japanese already did, and made CA HSR look like some engineering genius. :-) So don't be fooled by this useless press release, arguing about a paper tiger, especially since they have ZERO capacity right now, so half of ZERO is still ZERO, and 10% of ZERO is still ZERO. 

ts1457 Wrote:
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> Maybe the faster the train goes in the more room you need for the air to escape around it.

Does this "news" relate to regular air, or HOT air?

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ts1457 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Maybe the faster the train goes in the more room
> you need for the air to escape around it.
>
> Does this "news" relate to regular air, or HOT

cchan006 in the post above explained it better.

Is it possible that this HSR project is being managed by someone from DC Metro?

Dick

2ebright Wrote:
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> Is it possible that this HSR project is being
> managed by someone from DC Metro?
>
> Dick

Hehe. Has Train Stupidity achieved epidemic status yet? It certainly isn't a regional disease, and this is a proof of that.

DC Metro has a running system, regardless of how broken it is. On the other hand, CA HSR, even with construction going on is still a paper railroad. Here, we're arguing about "cutting capacity" for something that doesn't exist. Furthermore, they're discussing tunnel sizes, when none of the proposed "construction packages" between Madera and Wasco has any geography (mountains) relevant to the discussion.

We already know CA HSR has chickened out on the tunnels between Bakersfield and the LA Basin. Yet, no contracts have been bid or awarded for the Central Valley to Gilroy segment of the route, where there should be tunnels through Pacheco Pass. Until this happens, I'm predicting they're wimping out here, too, because there's a strong likelihood they won't get enough funds to even start that segment.

So to be more blunt, this "cheaper tunnels leading to reduction of 20 mph" bullshit is a trick to fool the public into justifying the speed decrease, to distract away from the fact that Prop 1A's "220 mph" promise was a Big Lie.

This is just my speculation, but I bet the Prop 1A proponents got fooled by the Chinese HSR propaganda about the 220 mph, when the REAL developers of HSR technologies (Japan, France, Germany, others) were only running 200 mph for revenue service. Once again, can you say Train Stupidity? We have people who make transportation policy based on foreign propaganda!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/16 10:40 by cchan006.

Here's where it started:

Date: 04/03/07 08:48
California Looking at TGV

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1377538,page=1

Prop 1A in 2008:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_1A_(2008)
 

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's where it started:
>
> Date: 04/03/07 08:48
> California Looking at TGV
>
> http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1
> 377538,page=1
>
> Prop 1A in 2008:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Propositi
> on_1A_(2008)
>  

Thanks for the links... but remember, if you've been following the CA HSR saga, the grass roots organizing started in 2005, or before.. That's the year I received flyers in the mail regarding the High Speed Rail Project. 

This was in response to the European/Asian origin question. I distinctly remember a California Elected Official coming back and saying 'we really should have one of these' for some nebuleus reason that had nothing to do with economic feasiblity.

-------------------------------------------------------
... but remember, if you've
> been following the CA HSR saga, the grass roots
> organizing started in 2005, or before.. That's the
> year I received flyers in the mail regarding the
> High Speed Rail Project. 

The  "Golden State" has long seen itself as the trend setter for everything from medicine to highways to universal almost free college education.  The end of the rainbow for many Americans and strivers from beyond our borders.

That was a long time ago...

It actually sounds like common sense refinements are taking place, which is a good thing.  As long as space is reserved for future expansion, it isn't really cutting capacity in half to scale back initial station construction.  If the line is so wildly successful that 10 car trains are not enough, there is likely to be funds and political will to expand those stations once demand reaches that point.

But the usual know-it-all blowhards are going to blowhard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/16 08:53 by darkcloud.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The  "Golden State" has long seen itself as the
> trend setter for everything from medicine to
> highways to universal almost free college
> education.  The end of the rainbow for many
> Americans and strivers from beyond our borders.
>
> That was a long time ago...

At the present, it depends on which part of the Golden State. I know MojaveBill was offended when we mocked the "innovation" going on in California, and rightfully so, especially by the aerospace industry in the SoCal desert. If the state was really serious about CA HSR, then you'd think someone (even if government-funded) would incubate a research center on rail technology, yet I've yet to hear of anything like that happening. Plenty of smart people out there who can contribute.

Instead, almost all the transportation innovation up here in Northern California is focused on the automobile, whether it's self-driving, or "flying." (if you've read the recent gossip)