Passenger Trains > 4 Billion for a replacement B&P tunnel!!!

That is the latest estimate and already the NIMBY'S are raising a stink!!

Link to the news article: ​http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-train-tunnel-20161201-story.html

Baltimore needs a new line down the median of the orphaned piece of I70, under Orleans St. and then under Old Town Mall and Eager St.  The tunnel portion would only be 2.25 miles, the media portion about 1.75 miles.

The station would be on the north side of downtown, instead of a mile long taxi ride away.

There could be a MARC commuter station at Johns Hopkins.

The alignment would allow much higher speeds.

I know, strange idea - building the new rail line to where people actually want to go.

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Sounds like a VERY wise investment.  Commuter, Amtrak and freight trains can all use this tunnel.   In Cleveland where I live a new I-90 highway bridge was completed over the Cuyahoga River.  About six lanes each direction with numerous approach ramps, etc.   Cost almost 1 Billion. 
    In addition to safety and speed enhancements, Baltimore could build a new well-located station, which could be an economic engine for the city.

I don't think there's any freight component. CSX is committed to rebuilding Howard St.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

Actually NUMBY's.

CSX freight could be added if it could be at least four tracks wide; Halethorpe to Bayview. Depending on grades on the proposed route, it would be much straighter and maybe better grades which means faster. The existing Howard St tunnel, even if fixed, still is only single track for about six miles and suffers from sharp curves south of the stadiums and on the north end above Mt Royal where I think the grade is 1.55 percent, but track charts are in the car. And such a proposal, because it includes passenger trains on the NEC, might get more financial assistance from the Governments involved. But who knows if this will be possible with Trump. CSX should not abandon their plan for the forseeable future.

After what Claytor did to Conrail, I don't see why a freight carrier would want to put itself in a position to become depedent on Amtrak.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

According to the Final Environmental Impact Statement NS operates some frieght trains thru the tunnel.

Dcmcrider: What did Claytor do to Conrail? If your are talking about AMTK getting the NEC, that was all planned in the formation of Conrail and in the Final System Plan. Almost all those decisions were made in the Penn Central years. I gave my copy of the FSP to a friend who could use it more. IIRC, AMTK paid Conrail $85 million for the NEC. But no money changed hands. A per car mile charge was worked out between AMTK and CR (maybe it was part of the FSP) and it was not until the early 1980s that CR actually started paying AMTK for use of Corridor tracks. I knew the gal who handled that. Eventually, thru the closure of RFPs Potomac Yards CR found was to divert as much freight off the NEC as possible, something both carriers desired. when AMTK started (1971)PC was running, south of Philly only 24 or less passenger trains each way including a few mail only trains and excluding commuter train, and maximum speed was 100 mph. Now AMTK runs 86 trains on Fridays, some at 135 mph. It is an entirely different railroad.

My suggestion for a joint AMTK and freight trench/tunnel thru Baltimore on a better alignment for both railroads presumed AMTK and CSX would each own their own right of way, even if adjacent. If NS could be included would have to be an agreement between all parties and would mean NS would have to pay their share.  
My question about the proposed alignment, presuming it was AMTK only is when it reached the present Howard St tunnel would it go over it or under? Almost has to be under.

Claytor all but ran off Conrail after the wreck at Chase, Md. in 1987. Conrail elected to negotiate rights over the ex-B&O Philadelphia Sub (and move most traffic for interchange with NS to Hagerstown) rather than endure Amtrak's increased restrictions on the NEC.

If you look at the track charts appended to the EIS, the Amtrak alignment would go under CSX at the north end of the Howard St tunnel, just as it does today.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

There is no doubt that Claytor was upset about the Chase wreck and it was devastating to Stanley Crane. He said something to the effect 'you give them the best training and equipment and that's what they do'. I have a number of resources in the basement and was slightly involved in the process to negotiate rights over the B&O (why I still have copies of B&O track charts Philly to Pot Yard.) It would take a long time to prove anything Paul. But I really think negotiations were underway for Conrail track rights on B&O and the closure of Pot Yard were  before the Chase wreck. Most of the folks involved are gone now. No doubt the wreck hastened it. I'm quite sure the first Conrail trains...at first limited to only one per day began in 1987. Whether before or after the wreck makes little difference because negotiations took a very long time. And the seven owners of the RFP (stated before mergers...State of VA, B&O, PRR, C&O, Sou, ACL & SCL) wanted the money from the sale of Potomac Yard land for development of what became Crystal City at the north end and Metro expansion. By 1987 CSX owned 4/7 of it. So I believe those negotiations were underway before Chase, but it would take a lot of digging to prove it. There is a two volume history of Potomac Yard which I imagine covers that but they are expensive so I've passed them up given the many other books I've barely cracked. Also do not know if AMTK could kick Conrail off the NEC legally. After Chase AMTK did make operation of freghts miserable; delaying trains a day if they did not make the 2200-0600 window, establishing all the freight train size rules (which are still there). One quirk of their 135 car limit, instead of limit by feet, was the train from Chrysler yard in Newark westbound could have enough long multilevels, autoframe, and hi-cube boxcars that it was over two miles long. Today, AMTK is taking freight trains even in daylight, sometime loaded crude trains. Guess they need the money.

Thanks for the additional insights. I appreciate it.

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

I'm trying to remember when Conrail equalized divisions over Hagerstown with Pot Yard. Conrail favored Pot Yard routings because of slightly larger revenues for interline traffic with NS.

I am thinking that it was right after the accident.

Getting off the NEC allowed Conrail to junk the GG1 and E44 motors. As well as scrap a whole lot of copper wire in their own yards, branch lines, etc.

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