Passenger Trains > The original Prototype Viewliners from the late 1980s

So the original prototype Viewliners from the late 1980s - two sleepers and one diner..........

- The diner is back in service SUCCESSFULLY (Indianapolis).
- The one sleeper is part of the business fleet, restored to service as a Theater Car (American View)
- The other sleeper is.......................

Anyone know the story of the other sleeper? There was a story that it was being re-engineered to see how it could be used as a model for a coach car. However, I can't see how that's possible as long as it has a second row of windows that will be obscured with luggage. Moreover the luggage rack will likely be required to be "enclosed" like the Acela Express luggage rack.

Is it possible this lone Viewliner could be transformed into say a baggage/dorm or single level sightseeing car (with wrap around windows)? Could Amtrak do something with this car that would benefit the revenue paying passengers, unlike American View View is part of the business fleet........

Just curious if there can be any tranformation of this car or if there is any news on the status of this car. Amtrak has worked wondersw                                                                                                                     

Prototype Viewliner sleeper AMTK 2300 was partially dismantled by contractor Morrison-Knudsen to develop assembly 
processes for production Viewliners, then returned to Amtrak.  Its structure was intact but much of the interior
was disassembled.  Plans were made and most parts acquired to update it and the other prototype Viewliner
sleeper, the AMTK 2301, to the standard of the production cars but the plan was cancelled. 

AMTK 2301 operated for a time as a protect car based in Boston, for the Twilight Shoreliner and Lake Shore Limited.
It was renumbered 62091, experimentally used as a crew dormitory, then taken out of service.

2300 remains at Bear DE and is off-roster.  Yes, many ideas have been floated for it; nothing has happened toward
returning it to service, but it was used in further testing while Viewliner II production was being planned.

In 2014, AMTK 62091 ex-2301 was converted to theater car AMTK 10004.

One problem with converting the 2300 to anything else now is that among the three Viewliner prototypes, it has a
different design truck...the one NOT selected for further production.  See photo by Matt Donnelly of the 2300 in storage.
 



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/16 07:06 by GenePoon.

---

For a while in 1989, I was a regular sleeping car passenger Bos-Was, had a client in Was that called AM meetings that dovetailed nicely w the schedule of the Night Owl. 

Made maybe 6 or 8 round trips. Almost always wound up in up in a Viewliner sleeper, so am I right to assume both cars were in this service at the time?  I never noted the car number, so I guess it's possible I just got the same car over and over. 

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One problem with converting the 2300 to anything
> else now is that among the three Viewliner
> prototypes, it has a
> different design truck...the one NOT selected for
> further production.  See photo by Matt Donnelly
> of the 2300 in storage.
>  

Replacing those trucks with standard GSC trucks would be that big a problem, would it?

If not, maybe it should be cosmetically restored to be a static hotel car in CUS for misconnects. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/16 06:21 by joemvcnj.

In the early 90s, both Viewliner sleeper prototypes were used for a time as Executive Sleepers between WAS-NYC, where they were set out in Penn Station after being in the consist of 66/67, the Night Owl.
It was a nice way to return to DC from an evening show on Broadway, then get into bed and sleep all the way to Washington; I did it once with my family and we had two adjoining bedrooms, en suite.
Passengers were allowed to remain in the sleeper until 8AM before having to depart. 
Credit Mr. Claytor for this idea, if I remember correctly...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/16 07:01 by hazegray.

The shot of the 2300 in this thread has it with its second set of trucks. The first set were by Tokyu Railcar, these are a European design, that were similar to the set under the 2301. 8400 had GSI trucks when built, but later received Dofasco turcks, then back to GSI after being completely rebuilt.

The 2300 with its Toku bogies:
http://hebners.net/Amtrak/amtVIEW/amt2300b.jpg

2301 before it's final retrofit:
http://inrd.gotdns.com/amtkbg/amtk62091.jpg

8400 original with GSI:
[url=http:// http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2556502 ]http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2556502

8400 with the same Dofasco experimental truck that was also used on one Superliner coach-baggage (31011):
http/::www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1666136
and
http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakonline/amtk-di8400afm.jpg

On the Superliner:
http/::www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3370701


Plumbing, cabling, and mechanicals on this car are rather unique.

Jishnu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GenePoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One problem with converting the 2300 to
> anything
> > else now is that among the three Viewliner
> > prototypes, it has a
> > different design truck...the one NOT selected
> for
> > further production.  See photo by Matt
> Donnelly
> > of the 2300 in storage.
> >  
>
> Replacing those trucks with standard GSC trucks
> would be that big a problem, would it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/16 07:29 by tmurray.

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For a while in 1989, I was a regular sleeping car
> passenger Bos-Was, had a client in Was that called
> AM meetings that dovetailed nicely w the schedule
> of the Night Owl. 
>
> Made maybe 6 or 8 round trips. Almost always wound
> up in up in a Viewliner sleeper, so am I right to
> assume both cars were in this service at the time?
>  I never noted the car number, so I guess it's
> possible I just got the same car over and over. 

I rode the Washington-New York Executive Sleeper a lot, mostly New York-bound.  It was a setout sleeper from the Night Owl.

In the computer it was a 10-6 though usually it operated with a Viewliner (the Boston through sleeper was a 10-6, I never saw two Viewliners on the same train) unless bad ordered which according to attendants was often.  By programming it as a lower-capacity 10-6, oversales and reaccommodations to Coach, getting dumped off the train into Penn Station amongst the derelicts there in the wee hours, and pissing off the passengers, were avoided.

I booked it as a double bedroom in a 10-6 but though I prefer rooms in the center of the car, I would book Room A or B, which are the deluxe bedrooms in Viewliners.  Those holding A and B on the PNR would get A and B in the Viewliner.  Single passengers in C, D, E and F would get single economy bedrooms (now "roomettes"), two passengers would get two economy bedrooms.  The Viewliner handicapped bedroom was used by the attendant. 

The car would be switched out and spotted on a stub track in the bowels of Penn Station, with "honey pots" under the waste dump outlets. The attendant, who at boarding had asked what time you wanted to awaken, would ring the doorbell at the appointed time, make coffee, and bring it, a morning pastry and a newspaper.  

It was a civilized way to arrive in New York, at far lower cost than a half-decent hotel, and another good use of assets by W. Graham Claytor who, I understand, used it himself on occasion.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/16 08:05 by GenePoon.

When we were blessed with getting Mr. Claytor to take the CEO's position in 1982 there were 4 projects/products that I pushed hard to get him to approve and support. The first was to establish overnight sleeper service between the Boston/NYC/Washington markets utilizing existing train service. We did institute the Night Owl sleepers as discussed above but never did a good job marketing the service IMHO. To me this could have been a home run as it was substantially cheaper to book the sleeper vs. a hotel room plus transportation in any of the 3 cities.

   The 2nd. was to guarantee an ontime ride if you booked our Metroliner service between NYP-WUS in either direction. We then had about 25% of the business travelers market and the air shuttle(s) had 75%. To me it was again a no-brainer. We knew to the fraction of a percentage point our on time performance ( in 1982 IIRC it ranged from the high 80's to the mid 90's and averaged about 92%) with the Metroliners and thus knew that we'd have to provide you a free ride in only 8 out of 100 cases and we could adjust our fares upwards by 10% to cover that ( and still be cheaper than the shuttle). We also knew that year round the shuttles only averaged about a 55% OT performance due to frequent delays in thunderstorm seasons and that the shuttle was viewed as a low priority flight and was often ground delayed for higher priority flights. We also knew that the Metroliner was time competitive center city to center city and that the biggest single important ingredient to a business customer was reliability. I believed we could use the " we'll get you there on time or your trip was free" marketing slogan to quickly capture a majority of the business travelers. Mr. Claytor thought is was too bold a scheme and would never approve it. He and I had some lengthy " energetic" discussions but I was never able to get him on board. It's interesting to have witnessed that the Acela program has basically achieved what I thought was possible by over time ( word of mouth mostly) showing the business traveler that the train is more reliable and time competitive ( and far more comfortable) and now commands about 75% of the market. We got there but could have achieved it MUCH quicker.

   The 3rd. was to get the Board to hold at least 2 of its 11 monthly meetings somewhere on the road and use our service to get there. Previously only 1 other director and I used Amtrak to attend the monthly meetings in DC ( the other 7 flew in/out) and they never experienced the product. Mr. Claytor agreed and in 1983 we started having traveling Board meetings several times a year. He and I would also travel frequently by our regular trains and book space in other names so that our presence was not known in advance.

    The 4th. was the on board Train Chiefs program wherein we had a management rep. on every LDT every trip to do our best to give all customers a good trip and to solve any service issues on the spot. Mr. Claytor strongly supported the program and IMHO getting rid of it in the late 90's to save a relatively few dollars was a huge mistake.  I'm hopeful that Mr. Moorman will take a serious look at restoring this program.

     With Wick Moorman at the helm I'm optimistic that Amtrak's best times lay ahead.

    Ross Rowland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/16 13:18 by co614.

Would it still be possibe to travel under an alias name given current-day ID and Security requirements ?
Can't see that working crossing into Canada on Amtrak for one thing.

Mr. Rowland, your insight is fascinating. I absolutely agree that getting rid of the onboard chiefs was the worst detriment to Amtrak service possible. I remember riding Amtrak as a teen and the onboard chiefs would make announcements and acted as hosts. The trains seemed much cleaner, the food was certainly better and the crews were friendlier. I hope that position will be brought back. 

Genesis803 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Rowland, your insight is fascinating. I
> absolutely agree that getting rid of the onboard
> chiefs was the worst detriment to Amtrak service
> possible. I remember riding Amtrak as a teen and
> the onboard chiefs would make announcements and
> acted as hosts. The trains seemed much cleaner,
> the food was certainly better and the crews were
> friendlier. I hope that position will be brought
> back. 

Well, if he is looking at improving consistency among crews, then that might be the right step.

tmurray Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The shot of the 2300 in this thread has it with
> its second set of trucks. The first set were by
> Tokyu Railcar, these are a European design, that
> were similar to the set under the 2301. 8400 had
> GSI trucks when built, but later received Dofasco
> turcks, then back to GSI after being completely
> rebuilt.
>
> The 2300 with its Toku bogies:
> http://hebners.net/Amtrak/amtVIEW/amt2300b.jpg
>
> 2301 before it's final retrofit:
> http://inrd.gotdns.com/amtkbg/amtk62091.jpg
>
> 8400 original with GSI:
> http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?
> id=2556502
>
> 8400 with the same Dofasco experimental truck that
> was also used on one Superliner coach-baggage
> (31011):
> http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?
> id=1666136
> and
> http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakonline/amtk-di8400af
> m.jpg
>
> On the Superliner:
> http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?
> id=3370701
>
>
> Plumbing, cabling, and mechanicals on this car are
> rather unique.
>
> Jishnu Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GenePoon Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > One problem with converting the 2300 to
> > anything
> > > else now is that among the three Viewliner
> > > prototypes, it has a
> > > different design truck...the one NOT selected
> > for
> > > further production.  See photo by Matt
> > Donnelly
> > > of the 2300 in storage.
> > >  
> >
> > Replacing those trucks with standard GSC trucks
> > would be that big a problem, would it?

But if the car is gutted and run as a single level sightseer lounge car (on say the Cardinal route) - you don't need plumbing/cabling to each roomette and bedroom, just one good working bathroom if that and perhaps a cafe area at one end of the car. Pipe in the HVAC similiar to how they re-did American View and the Diner Indianapolis. and some descent lounge seats that they did in the refurb of the Superliner Sightseer cars......Amtrak doesn't like to have "one-off cars" but they sure got'em in the business fleet. They are "around."