Passenger Trains > Winter Park Express review: Wonderfully pricy

The Winter Park Express review: Wonderfully pricy
Denverite
January 15, 2017

> People had two reactions when they heard the ski train to Winter Park
> would be returning to regular service this year: a.) That’s
> wonderful! b.) That’s expensive!
>
> After riding it last Saturday with my friend/colleague Stephanie, I
> can tell you that both are correct. It’s a really great ride, and it
> costs anywhere from $39 to $59 each way for adults, depending how
> early you book your ticket. Tickets in 2008 for the same route were
> $59 roundtrip before service was discontinued.
>
> This post will go over my impressions of the journey and then dive
> into a discussion about why it costs what it does, including comment
> from Amtrak...

FULL STORY:

http://www.denverite.com/winter-park-express-review-worth-youre-wealthy-26713/

some of the info on the previous train maybe inaccurate, prices and ski storage....

If you can afford to live in Colorado and ski, then you can afford the train fare.

"Steamed north?" Didn't know this year's train was steam powered LOL.  Why do modern trains always "steam" and "chug?"  As to price, if you can afford to ski, you can afford the train. No more than other forms of entertainment such as sports tickets, etc. 

The author assumes from Amtrak's $1 billion in federal subsidies, they were entitled to lower fares and new station facilities.
The system doesn't work that way.

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Steamed north?" Didn't know this year's train was
> steam powered LOL.  Why do modern trains always
> "steam" and "chug?"  

I've often wondered the same, a friend who works in print media says it's because these are recognisable sounds when written, whereas the sound of a diesel (or electric) aren't. To which you can add a certain laziness amoung the journalists.

If the article is correct--and there were 500 on board--then the price is just right.

​And,  if Amtrak determines they turned away a lot of riders demanding tickets--these prices will go higher.

​Anyway, how can $59 be considered "expensive" in today's America"?  This might buy you a pat of butter for your roll in Manhattan,.

Compared to the $5.20 fare all the way to Golden center, $59 may be a lot.

Posted from Android

I think hotel rates in Denver are even more outrageous, but that is what the market can bare. They want Amtrak to run like a "business" then bitch when they do. Let RTD run the ski train. See how well that works.

So $78 now for something that was $59 8 years ago.  Sounds in line with the rise in cost of many other things during that time.

What the people that are complaining about the cost of riding Ski Train don't realize is the value...

Would you rather battle the traffic, weather and dangers of driving up I-70 and I-40 to/from Winter Park?
Or, would you rather plan ahead to get the $39 one-way ticket ($80 R/T) and invest in the sanity of having someone else drive while you relax all the way to WP and back to Denver?

I personally have driven I-70 and I-40 enough to know better.  If there's an alternative, TAKE IT!
That is what Ski Train provides.  A safe, sane alternative, and it's whats been missing in Denver for a long time.

NYC4096 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally have driven I-70 and I-40 enough to
> know better.  If there's an alternative, TAKE
> IT!
> That is what Ski Train provides.  A safe, sane
> alternative, and it's whats been missing in Denver
> for a long time.

Yup. I was driving to Winter Park in January of 2007, and an avalanche behind me knocked some cars off Hwy 40. I found out when I made a refreshment stop near Winter Park, and met people who's friends were trapped in those vehicles (they were making frantic calls on their cell phones). Luckily, no fatalities.

Berthoud Pass was closed, so I I detoured via Hwy 40 and Hwy 9 to I-70, and got hit by a mini-blizzard near Loveland, and got stuck in an eastbound I-70 traffic mess.

I might have posted a picture or two somewhere... I chased the Ski Train and got an eastbound coal train the process. Should have ridden the Ski Train and just watched trains at Winter Park instead of driving.

Except for the "forced objectivity" of the "Wonderfully Pricy" in the title, the article was relatively well-written. It mentions fellow passengers who were gloating over I-70 congestion, so the author gave an underhanded endorsement to the value of the Ski Train. 

My two cents worth from personal experience:

One main note I should bring up, that was already brought up in this thread, that regards to one of two reactions that were given about the service. One reaction was "That's expensive!". Well, if you can afford to ski and snowboard, you can afford to ride the train.

As a person rode the train yesterday, you do not need to spend an arm and a leg. In most cases, you do have to pay to park in Denver. However, on Sundays and Holidays, certain lots and parking meters throughout downtown Denver, including the street on the west side of Denver Union Station are all free of charge all day (Wewatta Street). You can access the platform from your car on stairs or a ramp that connects to the sidewalk. However, parking garages still charge a fee, which most are about $5 per day. Ticket prices per person are averaging $39 one-way, or $78 round-trip for one person. Now for those who do not ski or snowboard can travel into downtown Winter Park and Fraser by shuttle bus for free to and from the resort. You can shop and dine at any of the local establishments that are available. The Winter Park Resort also offers other things you can do, such as tubing down a snowy hill. And more shops and restaurants are also at the resort. The only thing I spent money on was coffee and a donut at Union Station, and lunch in Winter Park which was priced really well.

All in all, you do not have to be a wealthy person to ride the Ski Train. In the end, it beats driving over Berthoud Pass and dealing with the traffic on I-70. The service is there for anyone. It is an option for people wanting to avoid driving up the mountain, dealing with slick roads, and bumper-to-bumper traffic.

John Crisanti
Longmont, CO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/17 10:54 by FrontRangeTrains.

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Steamed north?" Didn't know this year's train was
> steam powered LOL.  Why do modern trains always
> "steam" and "chug?"  As to price, if you can
> afford to ski, you can afford the train. No more
> than other forms of entertainment such as sports
> tickets, etc. 

Well, you can have "chug", but steam-powered railroading is simply involved in various familiar metaphors—losing steam, getting up steam, going on one's own steam, steaming ahead (of anything, more rarely of actual trains than of innumerable sorts of metaphorical steaming). In the same way, metaphors derived from sailing ships pervaded railroad terminology (on board, aboard, disembark, stateroom for certain types of sleeper accommodations, etc.); and the UP described the departures of the City of San Francisco—I think it was SF—a train that ran only twice a week as "sailings".

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Compared to the $5.20 fare all the way to Golden
> center, $59 may be a lot.
>
> Posted from Android

But remember the RTD sales tax everytime you buy something in Metro Denver. Now much was that fare to Golden?

bmarti7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Compared to the $5.20 fare all the way to
> Golden
> > center, $59 may be a lot.
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> But remember the RTD sales tax everytime you buy
> something in Metro Denver. Now much was that fare
> to Golden?

I suspect the reaction to the $59 fare is more along the lines that people are entitled to low cost mass transit.

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Why do modern trains always "steam" and "chug?" 

I said this before and I'll say it again.  Listen an Amtrak General Electric locomotive.  "Chug chug" is not an inaccurate description of the sound of a Genesis diesel.

< I suspect the reaction to the $59 fare is more along the lines that people are entitled to low cost mass transit.>

So they expect RTD level fares to Winter Park ? But RTD will getcha for $9 just to go to DIA. How is the comparison in cost per mile ?

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> < I suspect the reaction to the $59 fare is more
> along the lines that people are entitled to low
> cost mass transit.>
>
> So they expect RTD level fares to Winter Park ?
> But RTD will getcha for $9 just to go to DIA. How
> is the comparison in cost per mile ?

DIA is about MP 24 from Denver Union Station.  W. Portal (Winter Park) is right around MP 57-58 on the Moffat Tunnel Sub.  So, $9 to go 24 miles vs. $39-59 to go not quite 60.  Remember those are one-way fares.  RTD-like fare levels for the Express would be about $20 each way or about $40 roundtrip which is about $20 less than what the old train cost to ride.

niagara484



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/17 20:39 by niagara484.

NYC4096 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the people that are complaining about the
> cost of riding Ski Train don't realize is the
> value...
>
> Would you rather battle the traffic, weather and
> dangers of driving up I-70 and I-40 to/from Winter
> Park?
> Or, would you rather plan ahead to get the $39
> one-way ticket ($80 R/T) and invest in the sanity
> of having someone else drive while you relax all
> the way to WP and back to Denver?
>
> I personally have driven I-70 and I-40 enough to
> know better.  If there's an alternative, TAKE
> IT!
> That is what Ski Train provides.  A safe, sane
> alternative, and it's whats been missing in Denver
> for a long time.

Value is a relative thing.  This statement in the linked article says it all: 

"I’m a weekend warrior, averaging maybe 20 days skiing a year. Given the cost of my pass, that’s about $30 a day. I’m not ready to triple that with a train ticket."

That's your typical Front Range skier/rider.  And with the Express you gotta think like a skier/rider, not like a train buff.  Yours truly loves to snowboard (yeah, yeah, I'm a "knuckle-dragger").  We're actually not made of money, even those of us with a nice income.  We buy passes at the beginning of the season to avoid the $120/day walk-up price for a lift ticket.  We carpool to save on gas and park in the free outer lots taking a shuttle bus to the base area.  We bring food with us and stash it in our parkas so that we don't have to pay $15 for a hamburger (pocket pork chops anyone?).  We'll crash on someone's floor in a sleeping bag if it means we can stay up the entire weekend.  The fares that the Express is charging are more than we're going to be willing (and able) to pay week after week.  That's the simple truth.

Front Range skiers/riders usually don't plan their outings weeks in advance.  I'll start watching weather forecasts, snow reports, etc and start talking with friends mid-week.  We'll have plans pretty much in place for that weekend by Friday but sometimes we don't make a final decision on where we're going until we're meeting up at the Park 'n Ride early Saturday morning to carpool up.  Sometimes it even changes enroute.  With the Express you need to make plans well ahead of time, especially if you want to guarantee snagging the $39 fare.

Now, I know that I've come across as Mr. Negative this whole time with the Express but I'm not actually that way.  The truth is that there's plenty of interest and enthusiasm for this train and I think that's great.  I believe the high-"er" fares will limit the number of repeat riders during the season but there's a big market of people who are going to enjoy riding the train to WP.  May it continue to run for many years!

niagara484