Passenger Trains > interior signs in passenger cars

My questions are related to older equipment prior to Amtrak. I remember walking down the hallway on a sleeper car and near the end was a small chain near the ceiling which the crew would pull to activate a whistle signal in the cab of the locomotive. What was the proper term for that system and how might it have been identified in the car? I also remember in the same general area a pull cord for the emergency brake that had a shield around it to prevent something accidently catching and pulling it. I seem to recall that it was marked "emergency brake, do not touch" or something similar. Anyone out there know what I am talking about?
Charlie

The signaling system from train body to cab dates from before two-way radio, as a means for crew in the train to signal
the engineer to proceed after a stop, or to stop the train as needed.  It was present on streamlined equipment,
too...usually the crew would pull a cord, overhead in the vestibule. The valve thus controlled was called the "conductor's
valve" and it activated a small signaling whistle in the engine cab.

In the very early days there was a signal cord strung through coaches above the windows, as on a bus, where passengers
could pull it.  That was changed, early on!

The emergency brake valve vents the air line, causing the brakes to apply in emergency on the entire train.  If a crew member 
in the train sees the need to stop the train immediately, the valve is pulled.  This system still exists and in fact has saved
lives on Amtrak, particularly in an overspeed situation in Elizabeth, NJ...the conductor realized the train wasn't slowing down
for the curve there and pulled the emergency brake valve.  That slowed the train just enough so it didn't derail, though later
investigation showed that it had still rounded the curve at a speed that may have caused it to overturn, but luckily did not.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/17 14:53 by GenePoon.

I understand the function and purpose of the equipment, I am trying to remember exactly what wording was used to indentify those two components in the passenger car. 

"Conductor's SIgnal" ?

This is an abbreviated version of communicating signals that I remember.  Doug

UCOR "rule 16" Communicating Signals.  Each car of a passenger train must be connected with the engine by a communicating signal appliance. etc etc.
Note "0" for short sounds,  and "__" for longer sounds.
00 when standing - start
00 when running stop at once
000 when standing - back
000 when running - stop at next station and or next flag stop ( short version)
0000 when standing - release or apply air brakes
0000 when running - reduce speed
00000 when standing - recall flagman
00000 when running - increase speed
000000 when running - increase train heat
__ __ when running, release sticking brake, look back for hand signals
______ shut off train heat
00 __ when running, as prescribed by rule 90

 

Most rulebooks called it the train communicating system.

Most employees called it the signal line.  As is, "That engine over
there has steam and signal lines."

I seem to remember the pull cord for the signal system to be overhead in the vestibule, and don't remember any sign identifying it.  But that was a long time ago.

The more I think about I believe you are right about the signal line being in the vestibule, but I am pretty sure the emergency brake pull was inside the cars at the ends and mounted up high (well above the reach of little kids).
Charlie
Jimbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I seem to remember the pull cord for the signal
> system to be overhead in the vestibule, and don't
> remember any sign identifying it.  But that was a
> long time ago.

Here is the hallway emergency brake valve and cover on former Union Pacific 10-6 "Pacific Waves" built by Budd in 1950, in the area near Bedroom A, for your reference.

---

That is exactly what I remembered, thanks!
Charlie
BuddPullman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the hallway emergency brake valve and
> cover on former Union Pacific 10-6 "Pacific Waves"
> built by Budd in 1950, in the area near Bedroom A,
> for your reference.

the old ski train cars kids would piss off the conductor, he'd storm up the isle

See Code of Federal Regulations, 49  CFR 238.305 (Daily Interior Inspection) Section 238.305 (c) (5) which reads "The words “Emergency Brake Valve” are legibly stenciled or marked near each brake pipe valve or shown on an adjacent badge plate."  Some overly energetic FRA inspectors, in the past, have written up signs having similar but not exact words, such as "Brake Emergency Use Only".  The FRA, in their Compliance Manual advises their field inspectors that "The required language "Emergency Brake Valve" is preferred, but inspectors should use good judgment when encountering similar verbiage on the stencil or marking, as a large number of these valves are marked “Brake Emergency Use Only.” Inspectors should take no exception to this or other markings that meet the intent."

Mopac used the system for sure as I do remember. In Little Rock I recall when standing up front by the lead engine when it was departure time I could hear the signal.
As well I recall standing in the vestibule on my trips when approaching a station the conductor would signal the engineer to stop.

Posted from iPhone

Used on the NYCRR all the time -- even on our Rail Detector Car we used it from the rear (testing equipment) to the front (operator) -- and in the various MUs on the LIRR there is a button in the ceiling with the same function: conductor's signal. 

I believe we have wandrered into talking about 2 entirely different
things here.

The emergency brake valve was seldom hooked to a cable.
A handle was hooked directly to the valve and would put the train
brakes into emergency. I have seen cars that had the valve itself in the
vestibule or on the end of the car if it didn't have a vestibule.  The
handle to operate it was inside the car, and in some cases it might
have 2 or 3 feet of rope cable attached to make it easier to grab it.
The valve and it's port was usually not inside the car to avoid the
blast of air (and moisture) into the car.

The communicating, or signal line was an entirely different thing.
This was an air line that went to a whistle in the locomotive cab,
and was used to tell the engineer when to depart, etc. 

As described by a poster above.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe we have wandrered into talking about 2
> entirely different
> things here.
>
> The emergency brake valve was seldom hooked to a
> cable.
> A handle was hooked directly to the valve and
> would put the train
> brakes into emergency. I have seen cars that had
> the valve itself in the
> vestibule or on the end of the car if it didn't
> have a vestibule.  The
> handle to operate it was inside the car, and in
> some cases it might
> have 2 or 3 feet of rope cable attached to make it
> easier to grab it.
> The valve and it's port was usually not inside the
> car to avoid the
> blast of air (and moisture) into the car.
>
> The communicating, or signal line was an entirely
> different thing.
> This was an air line that went to a whistle in the
> locomotive cab,
> and was used to tell the engineer when to depart,
> etc. 
>
> As described by a poster above.

​Correct.  I have worked on cars frm 1860's that had a signal line and it was never marked. The line was strung throght the center line of the car and hung by straps and loops under the ceiling lamps

Slightly off-topic, but I recall the B&M RDC's had a white button above the center door in each vestibule.  The conductor would use it to signal the engineer when it was time to leave a station.  It was a buzzer.

I got a cab ride in the 1880's "Glenbrook" narrow gauge Mogul last Summer at the Nevada State RR museum in Carson City, NV.  It had a small signaling "Gong" mounted on the cab roof (inside, rear)  that was used to connect to the old "cable system" mentioned earlier. 

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Slightly off-topic, but I recall the B&M RDC's had
> a white button above the center door in each
> vestibule.  The conductor would use it to signal
> the engineer when it was time to leave a
> station.  It was a buzzer.

Not really off-topic, since it serves the same "conductor's signal" function as the internal whistle cited previously.

I also thought it was pretty clear all along that two different systems were the subjects of this thread.

I remember as a kid hearing the engineers of ex-New Haven Washboard MUs and FL9s whistle off from stations in the commuter district with two short blasts, which I presume was in response to the conductors' signals. They haven't done that for years, but the Metropolitan MUs that succeeded the Washboards also had buzzers rather than whistles for the conductors' signals, and I'd imagine the new M8s do, too.
 

1019X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My questions are related to older equipment prior to Amtrak. I remember walking down the hallway on
> a sleeper car and near the end was a small chain near the ceiling which the crew would pull to
> activate a whistle signal in the cab of the locomotive. What was the proper term for that
> system . . .?

The air brake people called it the "Train Air Signal" (or sometimes just "Air Signal").  The Penn Central air brake manual for crews (form EC-99) was titled "Brake and Train Air Signal Instructions".