Passenger Trains > SEPTA to pick Chinese-owned company to build bilevels

> At its meeting next week, SEPTA’s board is expected to award CRRC MA
> Corporation a $137.5 million contract to build 45 bilevel railcars
> for Regional Rail. SEPTA picked the Chinese-owned company with a
> factory in Springfield, Mass., over bids from South Korea’s Hyundai
> Rotem, which has a manufacturing plant in South Philadelphia, and
> Bombardier, a Canadian company with plants near Pittsburgh and
> Plattsburgh, N.Y.

SEPTA to pick Massachusetts-based company to build bilevel railcars over Hyundai Rotem in South Philly

One SEPTA union in particular is pissed. TWU Local 234 is
SEPTA's biggest union but is biased since they also represent
workers at the South Philadelphia Hyundai Rotem plant.

So I guess they won't be NJT clones. I remember reading about this outfit in Mass., but have they actually built anything yet?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/17 16:30 by CPR_4000.

Didn't the Springfield MA factory build the Boston Orange line cars?

Posted from Android

They were awarded the contract by MBTA, but the factory hasn't even been built yet.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Didn't the Springfield MA factory build the Boston
> Orange line cars?
>
> Posted from Android

In response to Lackawanna484, 1836 writes:
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> They were awarded the contract by MBTA, but the
> factory hasn't even been built yet.
>
Details, details.  Mere details....

Donny isn't going to like this............

Weren't the SEPTA cars that had the cracked bolster assembled by Rotem?  If so, did that work into the decision or is all purely low-bid in these situations?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/17 21:59 by gsnyder.

billio Wrote:
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> In response to Lackawanna484, 1836 writes:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They were awarded the contract by MBTA, but the
> > factory hasn't even been built yet.
> >
> Details, details.  Mere details....

Off topic, but people who have been alert the past 6-8 years know why global trade realignment is mandatory... and this is just the beginning of the messy clean up.

I see it as rolling the dice. Rotem screwed up, so they'll try it another way. Who else is there ?
CAF ? Hah.
Bombardier has become a Fluster-Cuck, can't even deliver NYCTA R179 subway cars in a timely basis, and is screwing up Toronto-area LRV cars. 

What does siemens' order book look like? They're pushing out Bright Line cars.

Posted from Android

SP4360 Wrote:
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> Donny isn't going to like this............

Ya, he would probably prefer the Russians build them.

Americans are so hippocritical! Talk all this crap about China and this nonsense about "Make America Great Again", yet Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority chooses a freakin Chinese company to build American passenger cars.
I guess Mc Carthyism is cool if the price is right.

Should be an American company building American passenger cars for American passengers. Oh yeah, we are sellouts. Even though we say China is this or that, we will sell out in a New York minute to our "enemies" if the price is high enough. I guess it's cool 'cause the factory is in the US of A. Is that really what's up?

News flash....First off America is already GREAT!!! Even despite our issues. Secondly we need to STOP selling our companys (and bidding) to China and other foreign countries! We keep this madness up, they will wup our asses with economic warfare, not to mention the other types of warfare.

SEPTA and others and AMERICA needs to wake up and smell the coffee!

SantaFeRuss

Posted from Android

SEPTA chases loss leader contracts.  They saved a good 30-50% by being Rotem's guinea pig for the North American railroad railcar market.  They seem to have done the same with the Chineese firm.  In theory, if a forgien firm is losing money on the order that is the very essence of putting America first.  Right now forgien firms have invested in railcar factories all over the US.  Probably more than is warrented by the level of railcar demand.  That's one way that the trade deficit is returned. Ill advised forgien business ventures.

> Secondly we need
> to STOP selling our companys (and bidding) to
> China and other foreign countries! 

I guess this means Boeing should turn down hundreds of orders for commercial aircraft from the Chinese airlines. And Microsoft should not sell any licenses for Windows into China. And Cisco should not sell routers into China. And Hollywood should not send more movies in exchange for money. And Caterpillar/Progress Rail/EMD should not sell locomotives into China. You can't have it both ways. If you lock other countries out of the American market, they lock our companies out of their markets. 

As long as we have free markets there will be international ownership of corporations. In theory General Electric is an American company. What percentage of their stock is ultimately owned by Europeans and Asians? A lot. Things are never simple. 

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I see it as rolling the dice. Rotem screwed up, so
> they'll try it another way. Who else is there ?
> CAF ? Hah.
> Bombardier has become a Fluster-Cuck, can't even
> deliver NYCTA R179 subway cars in a timely basis,
> and is screwing up Toronto-area LRV cars. 

Kawasaki has been successful.

The Philadelphia Rotem order was also characterized by very close involvement with the local politicians. Many concessions were made to locate the assembly in the city, and to accept job candidates suggested by the council members.  The Inquirer has written about some of these issues.

Chasing low bid, loss leader contracts isn't necessarily a bad strategy if you write a solid contract with good penalties for failures to deliver and perform.  But, if your council members have conflicts and the project itself is seen as a jobs plan, that's a bad start.

Having each transit order create a new manufacturing and assembly hub for the political leadership is an inherently bad idea. You lose the ability to develop skill sets that mature over the years and fulfill repeat orders in a timely fashion. Having a factory in Elmira which has huge difficulties, anoher factory in Springfield which hasn't even been built, a closed factory in Plattsburgh, and a poorly performing factory in Philadelphia just like too much.

SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Americans are so hippocritical! Talk all this
> crap about China and this nonsense about "Make
> America Great Again", yet Southeastern
> Pennsylvania Transportation Authority chooses a
> freakin Chinese company to build American
> passenger cars.
> I guess Mc Carthyism is cool if the price is
> right.
>


whoa whoa whoa whoa. . .  Let's just keep the poor hippos out of this.

portlander Wrote:
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> SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Americans are so hippocritical! Talk all this
> > crap about China and this nonsense about "Make
> > America Great Again", yet Southeastern
> > Pennsylvania Transportation Authority chooses a
> > freakin Chinese company to build American
> > passenger cars.
> > I guess Mc Carthyism is cool if the price is
> > right.
> >
>
>
> whoa whoa whoa whoa. . .  Let's just keep the
> poor hippos out of this.

The HIPPA act requires extra wide accommodations for rail cars which carry hippos.

So a Chinese company will build the cars in the US, using American workers and (presumably) American steel.

I fail to see a problem here.  As others have noted, American companies do deals like this overseas all the time.  How many GE locomotives have been sold in China?  what proportion of them were BUILT in China (quite a few...)

There's a name in economics for the notion that each nation should be totally economically self sufficient.  It's called autarky and its widely regarded as suicidal.  The most notable examples in recent decades were North Korea and Albania.

ctillnc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Secondly we need
> > to STOP selling our companys (and bidding) to
> > China and other foreign countries! 
>
> I guess this means Boeing should turn down
> hundreds of orders for commercial aircraft from
> the Chinese airlines. And Microsoft should not
> sell any licenses for Windows into China. And
> Cisco should not sell routers into China. And
> Hollywood should not send more movies in exchange
> for money. And Caterpillar/Progress Rail/EMD
> should not sell locomotives into China. You can't
> have it both ways. If you lock other countries out
> of the American market, they lock our companies
> out of their markets. 
>
> As long as we have free markets there will be
> international ownership of corporations. In theory
> General Electric is an American company. What
> percentage of their stock is ultimately owned by
> Europeans and Asians? A lot. Things are never
> simple. 


You have this all wrong! We should sell planes to China and elsewhere. Boeing IS an American company. We should sell software to other countries. Microsoft IS an American company. What I am saying is we should NOT sell American companies to foreign countries to the detriment of our collective abilities to supply the world their needs, with out compromising our position as the global business leader.

Economic superiority goes hand in hand with technological superiority and military superiority. We as a Nation, need to get back that concept, if we,the United States Of America, want to remain great. Yes, this starts with bids SEPTA has engaged itself in. Many other examples as well.

Foreign investment is good and even necessary, but we must maintain majority ownership in most cases. Does this mean not to play on the international platform of trade? No. It means being the LEADER in such endeavors.

SantaFeRuss

Posted from Android