Railfan Technology > Scanners, what do you use?

I was curious as to what scanners everyone uses. I recently upgraded from my RS Pro-95 to the Uniden BCD396XT.

I installed all railroad freqs but noticed there's almost 200 AAR freqs over the regular 100. For example AAR 008 is 160.23000 AAR 108 is 160.23750 what's the difference?

Dave Toussaint
Riverside, CA
SoCalRailFan.com

I just purchased a Baofeng UV-5R+ on Amazon. Took it into the field today and it was actually picking up signal calls 12 miles up the line, further than my old Motorola Saber II. This, of course, was on the stock antenna. I have a 14.5" antenna coming to test out if it extends the range any.

The only complaint I have about the Baofeng is that it isn't as loud as the Saber II. The Saber II could be heard sitting on the tripod with the current train passing by. This one I have to keep closer to my ears.

I'm a ham on an off for many years. For handheld, I use an Icom IC-V82, and in the car I've got a Kenwood TM-271A. Dropped the license in 79 after 20 years (young family and all of the trappings.) After I retired, I picked up a RS-83 to hear the trains, and noticed a guy at the station pulling in the HBD 4 miles down the track whereas the RS-83 didn't. I found out he was a ham using an Icom. I decided then and there to renew the ham license, but it's not necessary for buy the ham equipment: just don't transmit without a license. Was down at Durand yesterday, and the Icom was pulling in the HBD 9 miles to the west, and I was occasionally hearing traffic in Flint, 13 miles to the east.

John, AKA K6KMJ.

I currently have four scanners. My one of choice is a Yaesu FT250R. It pulls in distant signals, is loud enough to hear comfortably in a moving car and is built like a tank. It's awkward to program on the keypad but I manage to do it. I keep my 20 channels in it that I use when railfanning locally.

For years I've had a 100 channel Bearcat handheld. It's reception is not as good as the Yaesu. But it's easier to program and add/subtract banks when travelling. Unfortunately, its volume is no longer loud enough for my aged ears and it cannot do narrowband.

I also have a Bearcat BC72XLT. It's reception is very poor. I've used it at NASCAR races but rarely for railfanning.

The newest addition is a Bao-Feng UV5RE+. It's a good thing it was only $35.99 at Amazon because I'm disappointed in it. Although its reception is good, it is utterly impossible to program with the keypad. Its scan rate is too slow; I wouldn't put more than 20 channels in it. If you put 100 channels in it you'd miss many transmissions becuase of the slow scan rate. It's not possible to lock out a channel while using the scanner in the field. Also, it will transmit on the railroad bands and that is NOT a good feature. Bao-Feng gets the thumbs down.

In my opinion nothing beats the Yaesu.

KG

Purchased a Yaesu FT-270 with a nice gain antenna last year, works very awesome, as said above. Also picked up a Yaesu FT-60 for EOT and RR band but it's not quite as good. Both are built well with the same characteristics as mentioned above.

Also have a clunky tri-band Uniden handheld that is very versatile but has modest reception and poor intermods. My Uniden/Regency M100 is still running as a desktop, great reception with a 5/8 wave.

*To the second question, that's the 'narrowband' spacing allowing the tighter spacing. If you follow some of the discussion there doesn't seem to be much going on with that right now. As has been pointed out, the difference is mostly in transmission, the reception may be possible with a regular receiver because the standard channel width will still capture the new spacing. The modulation is the same either way, it's the Digital transmission that will be a bigger issue. I don't think there's much going on that either but we may be surprised someday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/14 10:37 by TCnR.

There isn't 200 AAR channels for analog mode.

Same number of channels as before (91), they just went to narrowband bandwidth on the same frequencies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/14 14:04 by David.Curlee.

David.Curlee Wrote:
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> There isn't 200 AAR channels for analog mode.
>
> Same number of channels as before (91), they just
> went to narrowband bandwidth on the same
> frequencies.

That is not correct. The splinter channels are out there, though they are not in much, if any, use yet. They have AAR designations 104 through 197. Those are narrowband analog channels. Railroads are already modifying their licensure to use either analog and/or digital on the existing 007-197 AAR channels (190 channels). The current narrowband channels are now at 12.5 kHz spacing and will go to 6.25 kHz spacing with NXDN digital.

Here is the big rub for railfans: Most of the amateur radios now being sold can be set to receive on narrow band, but if they can't be programmed to less than 5 kHz steps (and I've yet to find one that can, according to the specs), then those "splinter" narrow band analog channels can't be programmed. If, for example, AAR channel 107's frequency can not be programmed/tuned in the radio--160.2225 MHz, then the radio won't properly "hear" the splinter channel, if it picks it up at all.

So, with most of today's amateur radios, one is "stuck" listening to only the old 97 AAR channels. The alternative is to look at one of the commercial analog radios. Some of the Baofeng's mentioned above won't do the 2.5 kHz split, either. One Chinese radio that will is the Wouxun KG-UV6X commercial model radio, but it costs as much as many amateur radios. I just got one of these and have yet to fully test it, but, aside from the usual incomplete and poorly written user's manual, it looks to be a fine radio. When I get time to really test it out, I'll report back. That is still only an "interim" solution for railfans. Once NXDN digital comes into use, there are no amateur radios or scanners that can decode it. Only Kenwood and Icom make NXDN-capable mobile and portable (hand held) radios. The railroads are buying those by the thousands and are retiring their analog-only radios at a rapid rate.

I use a Yaesu FT-50R and a GRE-PSR-500 handheld. The GRE is general coverage and sometimes that's nice when I'm under the approach to Denver's Airport when I out on the BNSF Brush Sub. I'm pretty much happy with both of them.

SoCalRailFan Wrote:
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> I was curious as to what scanners everyone uses.

In case you want a very inexpensive radio, go to Amazon.com, search for "UV5RA" and it will show you several offerings. They start in the $35.00 range and go up a bit after that. Or try http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ref=pe_465920_114278370_pe_row6_b3_t/?ASIN=B009MAKWC0 .
There are a few other models but I think the differences are cosmetic. The UV5RA is an upgrade version of the UV5A. You can order a package deal with the radio, a programming cable and a speaker/mic that cost about $50.00. Don't even think about using the mic part of it unless you have a license, It can get you a big fine (potentially thousands of $$$) and time in the federal graybar hotel. The speaker function is handy. You can hang the radio on your hip and clip the speaker to your collar.

I don't know how good or bad this radio is except for what I read in some reviews. Programming seems to be a bit difficult and scanning rate is slow but reception seems to be good. At $35.00 or $50.00 for the package deal I had to buy one. Can't go too bad with a deal like that.


John

The Baofeng UV-B5, UV-B6 or UV-82 is a much better radio and any of the three costs only a little more than the older UV series radios. That said, they lack a scan add/delete feature from the keypad and scan at very slow rates. They also won't accept the splinter frequencies that will eventually come into use. If one can live with those shortcomings, they are good performing radios, especially for the price.

Here are some observations from northern California on the Shasta Division. All the dispatcher radios have been switched to narrow FM mode according to the local UPRR radio comm technician, but generally the volume is just fine even on 30-year old scanners like the old Regency D300 base unit and HX-1000 portable without having to turn it up much at all. The locos and handhelds are quite variable in volume, part of this situation is the loco cabs are much quieter than the old days and the crew don't need to raise their voices near as much over the engine noise. This is quite noticeable when they talk with the DS, actually he/she has had to ask them to speak up and when they do the readability is definitely better! The hand-helds' modulation level is up and down, some loud, some soft. No changes to any channel frequencies yet and most of the 1942 CTC equipment from Redding to Black Butte is still in service working with additions of newer versions of Harmon Electrocode and, of course, radio-linked ATCS. Thought the railroad would/might replace most of the old relays someday (there are about 50 relays in each instrument house at sidings), but so far they are retrofitting the new equipt to the old without major changes. A reprieve for history buffs, not sure if how much PTC will change this. PTC installation has slowed considerably since last year.

So far, old scanners and new can receive the voice channels generally fine. I use an Icom 32at for voice reception, HX-1000 for EOT/HOTs, and Yupiteru MVT-3300 for ATCS. Use a Motorola MCS2000 for narrow deviation voice signals that are really low in volume - haven't tried that just yet, hope it helps. Yes, some of the voice signals are lower volume on the old scanners due to the narrower FM deviation used on the newer RR radios, but I wouldn't totally write off the old scanners just yet. They still pick up the non-voice digital channels just fine and some of the older sets have better sensitivity since they generally cover a narrower band of frequencies. I've used receivers of various types for 45 years now, and amazingly the old Icom and the HX-1000 beat out most of the newer scanners I've tried. Yaesu radios are definitely good also, I use a VX-170 as it has great volume and good sensitivity.

Interesting that as the years have passed since the UP took over from the SP in 1996, the UP is now operating the Shasta Division in a very similar fashion to the SP except for length of trains east (northbound). The SP folks knew what they were doing.

I have an old Epson 3170 Photo. I don't do much scanning, but when I do, it suits my purposes. I'll get a dedicated film scanner some day, but I'm still on the fence about a dedicated film scanner vs. a slide copier on my dSLR.

Arved Grass
Fleming Island, FL

I use a Yaesu FT-270R. Highly recommend it too. A good idea when you buy a scanner is to also purchase a tuned antenna to 160-161 MHz range, that will really help with reception. For portable use, I attach a Smiley 5/8 Slim Duck tuned to 160 MHz when I am outside of my car, when in my car I use a Larsen 1/4 Mag Mount antenna on top of my car. Get about a 15 mile reception.

Back to scanners now, Yaesu is a very good brand. Those things are soldiers, very well made and will last a LONG time.

My one complaint about it is that it takes a while to get used to programming frequencies into it. Took me about a week to fully understand it.

Mark

The Yaesu FT-250 and FT-270 and their older brothers the VX-150 and VX-170 are all good amateur radios for railfanning--EXCEPT for the aforementioned issue that they won't do the 2.5 kHz splits to tune the analog splinter channels that will likely come into eventual use. Aside from that, they offer selectivity, sensitivity, and audio output very close to the quality of many commercial hand-hand radios. I have a VX-150 and a VX-170 that I've had for nearly a decade that I still use for railfanning on occasion. Would I buy a new one, knowing the issue with the 2.5 kHz splits? Probably not, unless I was also going to use it for amateur radio work. I have an amateur license, so keeping my 170 and 150 around make sense for that. For railfanning I have several other commercial radios that I increasingly rely upon--two (a mobile and a handheld) that will do NXDN digital when that comes online.

For those interested, the annual big two-way radio show is going on right now in Las Vegas. It's usually where a lot of upcoming "goodies" are previewed.

One other note, my personal favorite hi-gain handheld antennas have been the Laird EXH-160 series. They are pre-tuned for the 160 MHz band. There are also some good Nagoya antennas out there that cost a little less, but still perform pretty well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/14 19:32 by WW.

I use a Kenwood NX210, or Motorola APX7000. For a scanner I do have a BCD396T, but very rarely use it for monitoring railroad traffic.

Jim

Icom 3161 and 5061

The Kenwood NX-210 portable and the NX-700 mobile are dandy NXDN radios, as are the Icom IC-F3161 portable and IC-F5061 mobile IDAS (Icom's name for NXDN) radios. Icoms tend to be a little less expensive than the Kenwoods and programming cables and software tend to be a little cheaper and easier to find for the Icoms than for the Kenwoods. Any of them may be more "spendy" than many railfans would want to invest in radios. I keep thinking that, by the time the railroads go whole-hog to NXDN, the Chinese will have begun selling NXDN-capable radios, as they are now doing with DMR digital radios. So far, though, I've heard nothing that indicates that they are inclined to do that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/14 21:28 by WW.

I have a Uniden Home Patrol, purchased in January. I bought it because I wanted an all-purpose scanner that could monitor trunked systems as well as RR frequencies.

It probably does not perform as well as some of the ham units mentioned here and elsewhere, but I live in an area in which there is a lot of radio traffic and relatively strong signals. I have the unit hooked up to a homemade dipole which I stuck on a window, and it performs reasonably well . I'm sure it would benefit from a better antenna, of course.

One feature of this radio is that it can record, using an SD card. I have not used this much, but it could be useful at times. There is some premium software available, but I have not purchased this.

I'd like to hear from anyone else who uses the Home Patrol -- comments, tips, complaints, etc.

Rat Shack Pro 51, Pro 95, Pro 163, Pro 164, Pro2006, Pro 48, Yaesu FT-60, Alinco JD2000, Motorola GP350, Motorola HT600, Motorola MT1000, Motorola GM300.

Although I have a pile of radios, for the last few years I buy only those I can program with a computer...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/14 17:45 by WP707.

As more and more public service agencies continue to convert to digital radio formats, the number of radio scanner models and even the manufacturers themselves are going to continue to dwindle. Most of today's scanners can be divided into two classes--cheap, relatively poorly performing analog scanners and expensive, complicated to operate, and generally poorly performing analog/digital scanners. Neither are very good for railfanning because of their poor selectivity and/or sensitivity characteristics. None of the digital scanners will decode NXDN, so they have no future for railfanning once the RR's go digital.

I have one of the more expensive and supposedly better performing digital scanners that I purchased for monitoring digital public service communications. I would never recommend it for railfanning. It is very "deaf" on the analog railroad channels, is a nightmare to field program, and has a measly 200 mW of audio output. And that is one the "better" digital scanners.

In another post, I mentioned the Wouxun KG-UV6X commercial transceiver as being a pretty impressive radio for railfanning until the RR's go digital. I'm still evaluating it, but, so far, I think it is a very good radio. It is best computer programmed, but the software and programming cable are inexpensive, and once initially programmed, the radio can also be field programmed if necessary. I've yet to test it in a real interference-intensive environment, but I think it will perform well at rejecting unwanted signals. Its sensitivity is right up there with the better commercial radios, and its audio output is also very good. The stock antenna is very good--as good at pulling in weak signals as a couple of aftermarket hi-gain antennas that I've tested on the radio. My only complaint about it is that the keypad lock feature is not configurable to lock the push-to-talk button, which if inadvertently pressed will knock the radio out of scan mode. Same with the "flashlight" button (why the Chinese put LED flashlights on many of their radios, I don't know, but they do) which can inadvertently be pressed, turning on the light and potentially running the battery down prematurely. (Maybe Wouxun will come out with a firmware upgrade that will fix this.) Battery life is also excellent, running close to 16 hours or more for me on receive. Overall, I give the Wouxum KG-UV6X an A- to B+ rating for a railfan hand-held analog radio.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/14 12:11 by WW.