Railfan Technology > A Legal Question

Let's say i'm parked on public property in i want to use my QUAD-COPTER to get a better shot of the interior of U.P.'s ROSEVILLE YARD or a BNSF coal train loading at the BLACK THUNDER mine. Even if i keep my copter at about 40 feet up in the air, can i still be charged with trespasssing?

Air space is legal, right? Regardless, dig this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLb_99f_JSE

Pretty sweet.

- Jeff Carlson

You can't be charged with Trespassing because you, yourself, your body didn't trespass. From what I understand, your drone must remain at least 50 feet from property, people, etc. Depending on what you take photos of, you could get in trouble like a peeping tom (not a problem if flying over a railyard). I also suspect you could get charged some federal laws (don't know the exact one however) if your drone is considered to be interfering with the operation/safety of a railroad. Finally, even if it is legal, I wouldn't want to deal with the law enforcement (police, sheriff, RR police, DHS, etc) new interest in what it is you are doing.

Depending on the type of facility, you could also be charged with unlawful surveillance. Power plants, certain types of factories or mills, etc. can fall under "sensitive facilities".

Z

maybe or maybe not he can be charged but the IDIOT standing on the tracks in the video can SURE CAN BE be charged with trespassing

A security guard with a shotgun or rifle would settle the question pretty quickly. And you couldn't go on the property to pick up the pieces without trespassing.

zephyrus Wrote:
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> Depending on the type of facility, you could also
> be charged with unlawful surveillance. Power
> plants, certain types of factories or mills, etc.
> can fall under "sensitive facilities".
>
> Z

There are an increasing number of these laws. Florida has a series of laws that define ports, pipeline facilities, power plants, non-public areas of airports, etc as photography prohibited zones. I've been "interviewed" although not charged under the law.

From a security standpoint, I'm pretty sure my company would be concerned enough to call out the police. Railyards are security-sensitive places --more so after 9/11. I wouldn't take the chance personally.

Posted from iPhone

Even if it is totally legal, do you really want to deal with all of bs that it's going to start?

Consult an attorney in the area.

What you get here is speculation.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert K3HX

Realist Wrote:
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> A security guard with a shotgun or rifle would
> settle the question pretty quickly. And you
> couldn't go on the property to pick up the pieces
> without trespassing.

Very doubtful any guard would shoot at a drone. I have seen them with hand guns, but have yet to hear of a California guard card for a shot gun or rifle. And if the guard did shoot with a pistol, if he misses, the bullet would have to come down somewhere. Big liability, if that round hits some one.

Do you have the money, time, and inclination to defend yourself as a test case? It could wind up going through several levels of courts, including Federal. That's a pretty steep price for a few photos.

It is your risk. If you manage to fly back to public property without incident you might get some interesting and unique video. But should anything go wrong you may not get your chopper back. At least not in one piece.

Not because of anyone "shooting it down" but because of the obstructions you must avoid while flying ... and if you are interrupted by an officer you may lose concentration on your flying skills. Even turning off the radio control and allowing the drone's "return home" function to auto-pilot back to you is no guarantee that you'll get your drone back. You would have to rely on the officer who is interrupting you to ALLOW you to safely return the drone to public property.

That being said, I'd love to get shots chasing a moving train from a copter ... I just don't want to lose the copter when (not if) something goes wrong. The FAA is currently investigating drone use and will hopefully come up with a policy that protects property owners, privacy and flight enthusiasts so everyone can coexist.

I am a senior citizen who has been using computers since 1986 and the internet since I took early retirement in 1994. I have to say that I have some very serious problems with the use of drones by "innocent" hobbyists such as railfans, and really, while I realize they are "legal", I'm just not so sure I want them flying over my house for any reason----------not that I have anything to hide but dammit, you just don't have to be here!!
A really tough issue, right?? Looks to me like it's going to end up in the same bucket as who can own guns etc and I'm not sure I want to sit on the sidelines and watch this happen---OTOH, I have nothing to add or subtract from the discussion since we don'[t own guns or drones and have no intention of getting them-------
C.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

PHall Wrote:
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> Even if it is totally legal, do you really want to
> deal with all of (the) bs that it's going to start?


EXACTLY!!! - don't taunt the monkeys...

Mr. MRL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/14 23:22 by MrMRL.

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CarolVoss Wrote:
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> it's going to end up in the same bucket as who can
> own guns etc and I'm not sure I want to sit on the
> sidelines and watch this happen

Well, some of the super geniuses out there are already putting both cameras and guns on the things and posting their target practice videos on the internet.

Ray

If you have to ask such a question, then deep down you probably realize it isn't a good idea to even try it.

You're trespassing and operating a model aircraft in airspace unapproved. With a yard or engine shop there is flammable items around you could crash into, and if you were to distract or disturb personnel while they were doing their job, and they got injured, of course they would come after you.

A lot has to do with the legal term "Expectation of Privacy". If I'm sitting on my front porch and you can see me from a public street, I have no expectation of privacy. On the other hand, if I am sitting in my fenced-in backyard I have an expectation of privacy. So when you fly your camera drone over my backyard, you have violated my right to privacy.

My overall inclination is to agree with Carol. The widespread use of these things is well on its way to being a major annoyance in residential neighborhoods.

Legally, there are lots of obnoxious behaviors that aren't actually illegal, and I suspect this may be one of them. But there is legislation out there prohibiting "interference" with RR operations,and I really would not want to be the test case that defines what constitutes interference.