Railfan Technology > small rugged video camera recommendation

I mountain bike daily within sight of bnsf's Seligman sub. could anybody recommend a small rugged video camera that I could take with me on my outings that would not fall apart during my rides. I store my current camera in a padded pack on my handlebars so it is within easy reach when I see a train. I would need a camera with a view finder, zoom, and image stabilization as some shots would have to be handheld.

thanks for any info..........

66

I bought a JVC GC-XA1 at Best Buy for under $200. It's about the size of a thick pack of regular length cigarettes, shockproof,works under water and has different mounts for helmet or whatever. Does a nice job.

I will bet that my iPhone would accomplish what you are trying for, esp. If you buy a flex mount for it to attach to your handlebar. Making sure you have enough memory to store a few vid files beforehand would be prudent, but otherwise my iPhone records vid at 1080p and has zoom capability. Best of all, it fits in my pocket. I'll stack the vid quality up to other dedicated products.

Have you thought that option through?

Chico

chico Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will bet that my iPhone would accomplish what
> you are trying for, esp. If you buy a flex mount
> for it to attach to your handlebar. Making sure
> you have enough memory to store a few vid files
> beforehand would be prudent, but otherwise my
> iPhone records vid at 1080p and has zoom
> capability. Best of all, it fits in my pocket.
> I'll stack the vid quality up to other dedicated
> products.
>
> Have you thought that option through?
>
> Chico

hmm, no I haven't and I even have an I phone. I really need an image stabilization feature as I will be doing mostly hand held shots.....

66

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chico Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I will bet that my iPhone would accomplish what
> > you are trying for, esp. If you buy a flex
> mount
> > for it to attach to your handlebar. Making
> sure
> > you have enough memory to store a few vid files
> > beforehand would be prudent, but otherwise my
> > iPhone records vid at 1080p and has zoom
> > capability. Best of all, it fits in my pocket.
>
> > I'll stack the vid quality up to other
> dedicated
> > products.
> >
> > Have you thought that option through?
> >
> > Chico
>
> hmm, no I haven't and I even have an I phone. I
> really need an image stabilization feature as I
> will be doing mostly hand held shots.....
>
> 66

Well I love my iPhone vid capability and have shot handheld, a no no I know. And, using iMovie free movie editing app I have been able to come up with some decent "clips". They'd be better when I get some kind of mount for my tripod, I posted here about that recently scroll down some for that. Handheld ok for wide angle but no good for tele views. So, get a mount, even a cheap tripod since they (the iPhone or droid) are so light. Video capability in your own hands and you didn't even know it?! You don't need IS, you need a mount with swivel for capturing a runby.

Check out HeartlandRails on YouTube for my vids

Chico

thanks for the info chico. I video trains while I am biking and when a train appears, I grab the camera and I video it. unfortunately, this does not leave me any time to set up a tripod so I really need the image stabilization feature.

by the way, I checked out your videos. nice and clear. great stuff.......

66

Hey thanks keep me posted on what you end up with . What is your location on the Seligman sub? One of my favorite places to fan.

Can you tell with a moniker like mine?

Chico. Aka lilchico

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I bought a JVC GC-XA1 at Best Buy for under $200.
> It's about the size of a thick pack of regular
> length cigarettes, shockproof,works under water
> and has different mounts for helmet or whatever.
> Does a nice job.

Yeah, JVC seems to have really good image stabilization algorithm. So does Canon (I use both currently). I throw them in my backpack, no extra padding, and they have performed well for me. Other brands don't perform well near maximum zoom, shakes like a wet dog.

Unfortunately, most reasonably priced camcorders these days don't have viewfinders. That means you can't use your face to steady the camera anymore.

If you MUST have a viewfinder, try seeking older DV-tape or DVD+R camcorders. They are a little larger and heavier (good for shooting handheld) but should still be small enough to throw in a bag. Most of these cameras are SD (Standard Definition, DVD quality at 480p), which could be a drawback. HD cameras with viewfinders are rather costly these days.

Ideally, you want a camcorder with CCD sensors instead of CMOS sensors. Most modern consumer camcorders use CMOS sensors, which are cheaper to manufacture. The drawback is that CMOS isn't fast enough to record the entire image per frame, so it "cheats" and that can affect image stabilization in a bad way. Just look up "rolling shutter" for a more detailed explanation. Many of the older DV-tape and DVD camcorders used CCD.

I know the OP wanted a specific recommendation, but I don't have one. I usually visit an electronic or camera store, grab a demonstration unit, then play around with it. I buy it on the spot if the price is right, otherwise I wait. I've done that for most of the camcorders I've owned. For better image quality, Sonys are nice. If good image stabilization at high zoom is needed, I recommend JVC or Canon.

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frisco1522 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I bought a JVC GC-XA1 at Best Buy for under
> $200.
> > It's about the size of a thick pack of regular
> > length cigarettes, shockproof,works under water
> > and has different mounts for helmet or whatever.
>
> > Does a nice job.
>
> Yeah, JVC seems to have really good image
> stabilization algorithm. So does Canon (I use both
> currently). I throw them in my backpack, no extra
> padding, and they have performed well for me.
> Other brands don't perform well near maximum zoom,
> shakes like a wet dog.
>
> Unfortunately, most reasonably priced camcorders
> these days don't have viewfinders. That means you
> can't use your face to steady the camera anymore.
>
>
> If you MUST have a viewfinder, try seeking older
> DV-tape or DVD+R camcorders. They are a little
> larger and heavier (good for shooting handheld)
> but should still be small enough to throw in a
> bag. Most of these cameras are SD (Standard
> Definition, DVD quality at 480p), which could be a
> drawback. HD cameras with viewfinders are rather
> costly these days.

by viewfinder, I mean an lcd screen so I can see what I am videoing.

> Ideally, you want a camcorder with CCD sensors
> instead of CMOS sensors. Most modern consumer
> camcorders use CMOS sensors, which are cheaper to
> manufacture. The drawback is that CMOS isn't fast
> enough to record the entire image per frame, so it
> "cheats" and that can affect image stabilization
> in a bad way. Just look up "rolling shutter" for a
> more detailed explanation. Many of the older
> DV-tape and DVD camcorders used CCD.

good info. I will look for a camcorder with ccd sensors

> I know the OP wanted a specific recommendation,
> but I don't have one. I usually visit an
> electronic or camera store, grab a demonstration
> unit, then play around with it. I buy it on the
> spot if the price is right, otherwise I wait. I've
> done that for most of the camcorders I've owned.
> For better image quality, Sonys are nice. If good
> image stabilization at high zoom is needed, I
> recommend JVC or Canon.

here is my routine. i mountain bike trackside and carry my camera in a small pack on the handlebars. when i see a train, i rapidly remove the camera, place it on my monopod, and video the train.

i adjust the zoom through the lcd screen and then start the video. i TRY not to use the zoom while filming.

like you said, i guess ill just have to visit an electronics store but i will be looking for either a sony, jvc, or canon.

one question, what is this "flash drive" i read about?

i just want to use a sd card to store my videos on and then transfer them to my laptop.

thanks for any info,

66

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> here is my routine. i mountain bike trackside and
> carry my camera in a small pack on the handlebars.
> when i see a train, i rapidly remove the camera,
> place it on my monopod, and video the train.
>
> i adjust the zoom through the lcd screen and then
> start the video. i TRY not to use the zoom while
> filming.
>
> like you said, i guess ill just have to visit an
> electronics store but i will be looking for either
> a sony, jvc, or canon.
>
> one question, what is this "flash drive" i read
> about?
>
> i just want to use a sd card to store my videos on
> and then transfer them to my laptop.
>
> thanks for any info,
>
> 66

"Flash drive" is probably some fancy marketing jargon for the SD card. SD card uses flash memory for storage. Almost modern consumer camcorders made in the last 3-4 years use SD card. So I wouldn't worry about that.

You might not have a choice in terms of CCD or CMOS sensor, unless you are willing to spend the time to research older models, which probably won't be available on store shelves to sample. Whatever you buy will probably have a CMOS sensor. If you are going to use a monopod and not change zoom while shooting, then image stabilization is really not a big issue then.

the monopod has really made a difference but SOMETIMES u gotta do a "handheld" IF u want the shot.

thanks for the info and I hope the videos come out half as nice as yours........

66

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frisco1522 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> Ideally, you want a camcorder with CCD sensors
> instead of CMOS sensors. Most modern consumer
> camcorders use CMOS sensors, which are cheaper to
> manufacture. The drawback is that CMOS isn't fast
> enough to record the entire image per frame, so it
> "cheats" and that can affect image stabilization
> in a bad way. Just look up "rolling shutter" for a
> more detailed explanation. Many of the older
> DV-tape and DVD camcorders used CCD.
>

CCD and CMOS have been around for about the same time and have about the same number of advantages and disadvantages. However, CMOS is the winner because today there are virtually no CCD sensor camera's available in consumer or pro camcorders.

While CMOS sensor's do have rolling shutter or vertical smears issues, today's CMOS sensor is much faster and thus rolling shutter is not like what it used to be, particularly the more money you can spend.

CCD's has it's own Achilles Heel, the Vertical Smear that was never ameliorated. The classic train problem is shooting in low light, and the locomotives headlights will make really ugly top to bottom lines across the whole frame.

I would think the actual reason CMOS is predominate now is not so much that it is cheaper to make but it uses less power thus you get more shoot time.

DV tape is now pretty much obsolete. You have to buy new tape while a flash memory card can be used over and over. An hour of real time transfer of a DV tape can be done in a quarter of the time with a flash memory card. You may already have enough SD cards that you can use.

For your backpack, a Canon VIXIA HF R500 would be a solid performer with HD, zoom, small, reliable, image stabilization.

Of course for bicycles I am thinking GoPro or Sony Sony HDR-AS100V!

Dennis Livesey
New York, NY