Railfan Technology > Now the work starts... scanning 6x6.

I just recently received a large collection of mostly color photos from a local modeler and railfan. His name is Dean Gray, he is in his mid-80s, and he started taking photos in the early 1960s, 50 years ago. I've known Dean since my own early days in the early 1970s, and he was usually at all the big events, taking his own photos.

But the thing that makes Dean's photos unique is that he mostly used Hasselblad cameras almost exclusively, and medium format film (120-size, or 6cm by 6cm), both as color negative and color slides. There are also hundreds of 35mm slides that he shot using similar high-end equipment.

Over an extended period of time, I plan on scanning them all. The negatives are not a problem, but the problem will be how to scan the slides. Most are in cardboard mounts, but there are also quite a bunch that are in Gepe glass mounts, sandwiched between two anti-newton ring glass layers.

I wonder if anyone as experience scanning 6x6 slides, especially in Gepe mounts. I tried simply laying them on my Epson V700, but as I expected, they are out of focus due to the distance from the glass.

The quickest solution might be to remove them from their mounts, scan them, and store them in archival acetate holders.

1) There are eight specialized wooden trays; four for some of the 6x6 slides, and four for some of the 35mm slides (shown).

2) An overall view of most of the 35mm stuff.

3) Included are six Hasselblad slide holders. These things are BIG.

Don Strack



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/20 15:48 by donstrack.

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Don,

I've never scanned 120 transparencies that are in Gepe glass mounts but I have scanned a lot of medium format on a V-700. One thing you might try is under the Epson Scan settings when in "Professional Mode", under Original > Document Type select "Film (with film holder)". That will adjust the focal point of the scanner's lens to focus on an object that is raised off the glass.

It may get you closer to the proper focus but probably not all the way there. It seems that every V-700 is slightly different and even the fixed height Epson film holders yield different results from scanner to scanner. I shim my film holders to get right in the sweet spot, which took some experimentation to find. You can read about that process in this post here...

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?9,1927158

You might have to try various thickness shims to get the mounted slides at just the right height but once you do, you can make a jig for holding the mounts at a fixed height. If the ANR glass in the mounts is good, it should work well.

There's also a coating on the window of the Gepe slide mounts that may interfere with scanning through them.

Looks like a great project though.

I have an Epson 4870. I would scan the mounted 120's right on the platten glass. If you think about it, that is the way the 35mm slides get scanned. You will have to play with the layout, of course - initially - that is a PITA. That said, once you figure it out, it moves right along. You should also be able to remove the transparencies from the mounts and use the 120 holder. Again, positioning will need to be determined, but it works fine (see below - 120 Kodachrome Transparency un-mounted using Epson 120 film strip holder).

Very much looking forward to seeing your scans!

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out

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Bob,

The V-700 has two specific focus points. One (film guide mode) is for film that is directly on the scanner glass. The other (film holder mode) is for originals placed a specific distance above the glass. The film holders raise the film quite a bit off the scanner glass, I suspect much more than the Gepe mount does. So I'm thinking that if Don wants to scan these in the mount, the height of the film off the scanner glass will have to fall in that "sweet spot" where proper focus is achieved.

But yes, the alternative of dismounting the film and using the film holder would probably be the best solution. In that case though, I would recommend a better film holder like one of these...

http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/models/vseries.html

Shimming seems like a good idea. Using a straight edge, I measured the distance from the bottom of the 120 film holder to the interior surface the film is held in Epson's Film Holder. The result is 3.5mm. A Gepe mount is 3mm thick, and half is 1.5mm. To bring a homemade holder up to 3.5mm, I took some card stock that measured 2mm and made a spacer to lay the Gepe mount and scan it at the same distance as the film holder.

Then I removed the film from the Gepe mount and placed it in the Epson 120-size film holder. I did four separate scans.

1) Laying flat, with the Film Guide and its setting.

2) Laying flat, with the Film Holder setting (not the Film Holder itself), hoping that the focus works okay.

3) Laying in a homemade holder that raised the film to the same as the Film Holder.

Two more follow...

Don Strack

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1) Removed the film from the Gepe glass mount and placed it in the Epson Film Holder.

2) The crop area of each original scan.

Comparing them all, I can really see the improved scan from using the film in its holder. I think I'll go with removing the film from the Gepe mount, which really is kind of useless without a Hasselblad slide projector. Same for the 120-size slides in cardboard mounts. I'll buy some strip acetate 120-film sleeves and cut them into single image size.

I am scanning at 2400ppi, since the archival standard seems to be 5000 pixels on the long side of any scanned image. 5000/2.25 = 2,222ppi. Also, each of these scans takes the same amount of time, so I may as well choose the best quality.

Don Strack



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/14 12:07 by donstrack.

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Don,

The Gepe glass is clearly shifting the color. Number 3 and 4 are close but as you stated, the scan of the unmounted film is clearly superior. I would experiment with a perfectly exposed original though until you get it dialed in. Makes comparisons easier. Remember, even with the film holder, you may have to make some height adjustments to get the focus correct.

trainjunkie Wrote:
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> Don,
>
> The Gepe glass is clearly shifting the color.
> Number 3 and 4 are close but as you stated, the
> scan of the unmounted film is clearly superior. I
> would experiment with a perfectly exposed original
> though until you get it dialed in. Makes
> comparisons easier. Remember, even with the film
> holder, you may have to make some height
> adjustments to get the focus correct.

In my research concerning Gepe glass mounts, a fog in the glass is a common problem. Gepe is apparently aware of the problem, including an FAQ entry. It is a age-related shift in the chemistry of the glass and there is no solution. Yet another reason to simply discard the slide mounts, glass and cardboard.

This image is simply the first one I grabbed. Turns out it is badly exposed, and good for test scans. Looking at some of the others, the exposure and color is mind-blowing. Wow! barely does the photo justice.

Don Strack

A couple of years ago a friend (railfan) passed away and his widow insisted on me taking all the railway slides and negs'. I will need to work through the scanning of the b&w negs, but as for the slides, ask yourself why do you need to scan them. Being USA, I'm sure they are all Kodachrome and in tip top condition. I shall certainly not be undertaking scanning my friends slides, because they can be projected and I simply cannot justify a reason why. Chris UK.

Chris,

Most of us scan our photos for various reasons but mostly so they can be shared with a broad audience in one way or another, such as sites like this or in books and magazine articles. You can reach a much bigger audience through these mediums than you can through a local slide show. Books and magazines require archival quality scans, which is Don's objective here, as well as mine and many others.

More in the 4th post down in this thread...

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?9,2579316

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of us scan our photos for various reasons but
> mostly so they can be shared with a broad audience
> in one way or another, such as sites like this or
> in books and magazine articles. You can reach a
> much bigger audience through these mediums than
> you can through a local slide show. Books and
> magazines require archival quality scans, which is
> Don's objective here, as well as mine and many
> others.

My goal is to share these photos by way of online photo albums. Previously I have scanned and uploaded slides and negatives taken by Emil Albrecht and Dave England. The Emil Project is done, but there are a couple hundred more yet to be scanned and uploaded from Dave England. Back a couple months ago I uploaded a few Dean Gray photos scanned from 8x10 prints. I now have the 120-size negatives for these photos.

http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Dean-Gray-Photos/

My online photo service provides statistics, and the top ten-viewed albums number in the 5,000 to 10,000 range of views in the past month. That's a few more than a local slide show. The big mystery is the consistent #1 place for the 1944 photos of Central of Georgia, with consistent 30-day numbers in the 10,000+ range. And besides, I only have a digital projector, and got rid of my slide projector about five years ago.

Don Strack

Hi - thanks for the scanning clarification. I too appreciate the time and effort put into scanning so images can be shared. After all, I have my own flickr site, and the oldies prove most popular. However, I do pick and choose, and have not set a task of scanning every single image. I have bookmarked the above site, some great photos. Chris, UK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/14 10:38 by 55002.