Railfan Technology > Mac Users Beware - Kalmbach Digital

Some time ago I purchased the back issues of Trains on DVD, When I tried to use it the other day on the latest Mac OS (Yosemite 10.10) it would not run. I contacted Kalmbach's customer service and was told they will not support Yosemite and future updates to Macintosh operating systems. I will never pour money down this particular rathole again. They said nothing about future support of operating systems from other vendors but you should think about this before buying any digital product from Kalmbach.

Bob Wilcox
Charlottesville, VA
My Flickr Shots



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/14 05:45 by bobwilcox.

Should bought a Windows machine...

Not really. Kalmbach needs to publish their stuff in a universal format... There
will be lots of whiners when MS changes their code and can no longer read 10 year-old
Kalmbach files.

Did you try it in linux? Linux does tend toward the swiss army knife style of doing things.

John.

I'm not a techie nor a subscriber to the DVD digital version of Kalmbach products, but, there is no reason for Kalmbach to reformat it when the content can just be uploaded to the cloud and accessed by the user on Ipad directly from there. Right?

chico

BNSF6400 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should bought a Windows machine...<
I lost two windows machine to virus few yeas ago,
yes I had anti-virus programs on both...
I have a Mac that was turned on about this time in 2005
Its still running great.......Swede,,,,,,,Albany,Or....

GN_X838 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BNSF6400 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Should bought a Windows machine...<
> I lost two windows machine to virus few yeas
> ago,
> yes I had anti-virus programs on both...
> I have a Mac that was turned on about this time in
> 2005
> Its still running
> great.......Swede,,,,,,,Albany,Or....

Right on.

Would it work using Bootstrap or Parallels?

jkh2cpu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not really. Kalmbach needs to publish their stuff
> in a universal format... There
> will be lots of whiners when MS changes their code
> and can no longer read 10 year-old
> Kalmbach files.
>
> Did you try it in linux? Linux does tend toward
> the swiss army knife style of doing things.
>
> John.

Unfortunately, universal formats tend to get pirated. I strongly suspect Trains came up with a proprietary way to present the digital data to the user, and the fine print in the system requirements hint at that:

The Trains Complete Collection will not run on tablet computers, media players, e-readers or smart phones.

FYI, the system requirements are either Windows XP, Vista, or Windows 7, or Mac OS X 10.4.11 (Tiger) to 10.9 (Mavericks). The Trains DVD supports PowerPC G5, so I think that's where the problem might be, that they are using a library (software module) that's old enough to support the PowerPC CPU, which means it might be too old to function properly on Mac OS X 10.10 (Yosemite).

Windows users can relax, because you guys didn't go through a major hardware makeover like the Macintosh guys did 10 years ago, when they had to migrate from PowerPC to Intel CPU. I can still run Windows 95 generation photo editing software on Windows 7 machines without a hitch. On the other hand, I've had problems trying to run open source video editing tools on my old Mac OS X machines, because of the PowerPC -> Intel platform change on the Mac.

Enough geek talk. The solution to the problem might be as simple as contacting the software developer who originally designed the Trains Magazine DVD to recompile the software with newer libraries. Then again, it might be more involved (and costly). Underneath, Mac OS X is still a BSD-based Unix machine, and only the graphical interface went through major changes, so it's not that different from Linux if you understand computer programming.

I'm puzzled as to why people aren't more upset about planned obsolescence the tech companies push onto the users, forcing people to constantly upgrade. This is a great example. Not all the blame should go to Kalmbach.

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> about planned obsolescence the tech companies push
> onto the users, forcing people to constantly
> upgrade. This is a great example. Not all the
> blame should go to Kalmbach.

An OS release which breaks old programs seems to be the opposite of a forced upgrade.

FWIW, I doubt that the PowerPC compatibility is what's keeping it from running on Yosemite. The support PowerPC binaries went away with 10.7 (Lion), so Kalmbach can't have been using that for the Intel Macs.

clem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FWIW, I doubt that the PowerPC compatibility is
> what's keeping it from running on Yosemite. The
> support PowerPC binaries went away with 10.7
> (Lion), so Kalmbach can't have been using that for
> the Intel Macs.

You're talking about Rosetta being dropped after 10.6, but I am thinking beyond that. I'm guessing Apple kept compatibility to older libraries until 10.10, where for example, legacy APIs that worked on 10.7-10.9 were finally removed? I've seen plenty of examples of that sort of stuff in the developer world. The listing of PowerPC G5 as a system requirement for the Trains Magazine DVD certainly hints at Kalmbach software using Universal binary for their software, and it was developed without regards to PowerPC support being dropped on 10.7... hence my comment above about possible need to recompile their software. I don't have a copy of the DVD, and obviously not any of their source code, so you understand that I'm taking an educated guess.

Of course, the software developer Kalmbach hired might have taken advantage of an "undocumented feature," in which case, software upgrades by Apple can break the program. Seen PLENTY of that in the Linux world when amateur coders jumped into the bandwagon years ago. I somehow doubt that's what happened here.

If 10.10 (Yosemite) has a feature for backwards compatibility to older OS, it's worth a try to see if the DVD will run. Perhaps, a third-party developer might publish such a tool in the near future, if 10.10 breaks more programs than just the Trains Magazine DVD. For example, Windows 7 has a "Windows XP mode." Anyway, I'm way off topic here, since this isn't about trains.

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clem Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> If 10.10 (Yosemite) has a feature for backwards
> compatibility to older OS, it's worth a try to see
> if the DVD will run. Perhaps, a third-party
> developer might publish such a tool in the near
> future, if 10.10 breaks more programs than just
> the Trains Magazine DVD. For example, Windows 7
> has a "Windows XP mode." Anyway, I'm way off topic
> here, since this isn't about trains.

You're not off topic, you're illuminating an important problem
for computer users... The intentional breakage of software
which leaves users in the dark, and cheated out of the money
the spent to view material. I would be outraged to spend $150
to purchase a DVD of Trains back issues, only to find that my
investment went poof with the change of an operating system. If
a $150 book went poof after a few years, there would be law suites
galore. I'm suspecting that the 'law' will eventually catch up
with software.

John.

It's the very reason I haven't abandoned my paper copies. Universally accessible as long as my eyes work, not encumbered by some anti-copying junk, and good essentially for as long as I'll care. One thing I've learned over the years is be very wary of any proprietary format for archival use, as 99% of the time support will eventually disappear. Contrast that with things like PDF and JPEG, where I almost guarantee will still be usable in 30 years, and if they're not, they're an open specification so anyone could (theoretically) write a piece of software to convert them to something else.

Yes, MS tends to be much more concerned about backwards compatibility and the massive install base of software than Apple. Apple typically has no problem breaking compatibility going forward, whereas MS drags along compatibility baggage forever. Both designs have merit, both have drawbacks. As both a user and a code monkey, I get to see both sides of the argument.

SpeederDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would it work using Bootstrap or Parallels?

It should.

An Intel Mac running Windows XP/XP Pro or newer under Bootstrap is for all intents and purposes a PC.

Under Parallels, it would probably run better, but that is just my opinion.

bobwilcox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some time ago I purchased the back issues of
> Trains on DVD, When I tried to use it the other
> day on the latest Mac OS (Yosemite 10.10) it would
> not run. I contacted Kalmbach's customer service
> and was told they will not support Yosemite and
> future updates to Macintosh operating systems. I
> will never pour money down this particular rathole
> again. The said nothing about future support of
> operating systems from other vendors but you
> should think about this before buying any digital
> product from Kalmbach.

Bob

I installed Yosemite on my Mac for exactly 7 days. My 2010 Mac Pro tower ran approximately 1/3 slower after installing it. I have since restored to Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and am running faster and with fewer glitches; slow starts and crashes. The only problem I've had since then is the loss of my email folders and their content.

You can restore the older operating system, if you have a Time Machine backup. If not, you are somewhat screwed.

MACS have the ability to run Windows os without any emulator. They are built in now. So you can buy the latest Windows os and use it to see the DVD. And other Windows only railroad tools like most of the cads. A Windows machine can not piggy back another os like a Mac can.

jkh2cpu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cchan006 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > clem Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> >
> > If 10.10 (Yosemite) has a feature for backwards
> > compatibility to older OS, it's worth a try to
> see
> > if the DVD will run. Perhaps, a third-party
> > developer might publish such a tool in the near
> > future, if 10.10 breaks more programs than just
> > the Trains Magazine DVD. For example, Windows 7
> > has a "Windows XP mode." Anyway, I'm way off
> topic
> > here, since this isn't about trains.
>
> You're not off topic, you're illuminating an
> important problem
> for computer users... The intentional breakage of
> software
> which leaves users in the dark, and cheated out of
> the money
> the spent to view material. I would be outraged
> to spend $150
> to purchase a DVD of Trains back issues, only to
> find that my
> investment went poof with the change of an
> operating system. If
> a $150 book went poof after a few years, there
> would be law suites
> galore. I'm suspecting that the 'law' will
> eventually catch up
> with software.
>

Several years ago I purchased a version of DeLorme's Topo USA. Now it will not run on Windows 8. The software was only a few years old when I upgraded to Windows 8. That has soured me on DeLorme's digital products, although I would probably still purchase the paper maps from them.

colehour Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Several years ago I purchased a version of
> DeLorme's Topo USA. Now it will not run on Windows
> 8. The software was only a few years old when I
> upgraded to Windows 8. That has soured me on
> DeLorme's digital products, although I would
> probably still purchase the paper maps from them.

I bought DeLorme's Street Atlas back when Windows 98 was new. It still runs on my Win XP and Vista machines just fine. I suspect it will run on Win 7 also, since Win 7 was really Microsoft's attempt to recover from Vista's bad reputation - it's essentially just an improved Vista.

I have visited the local computer stores various times to sample both Windows 8.x and Mac OS X Yosemite, but I don't buy the newest stuff blindly, so I have not upgraded. Microsoft has baited consumers with improved video technologies support with Windows Live Movie Maker features (native MP4 support, software image stabilizer), but I'm not going for it, since I can achieve similar results with Win 7, Vista, AND XP, with just a minor adjustment in the workflow using third-party/open source tools.

I'm still using Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) using PowerPC G4/G5. I uninstalled 10.5 (Leopard), because I did my own testing and video decoding was signifcantly faster with 10.4. It took me lots of research to find open source video tools (like ffmpeg) which worked properly on 10.4. Most of them were compiled with newer libraries for 10.5-10.6, or the source code made library calls that 10.4 didn't support.

I'm merrily watching older Intel Mac prices drop right now, before I commit to getting one. :-)

Irony. So much for customer focused, and building a company on customer satisfaction...

Not to mention that it's quite likely that they use macs in production.

Also rather interesting that the video free (once registered, but not subscribed) on the front page about Trainfest plays fine on a mac mini running 10.10.1. I wonder if the subscriber videos don't...if so, that just plain crappy. It shows that they obviously can produce mac viewable content, they just don't wanna. It's also possible the .1 update (released a couple days ago) had some compatibility fixes.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/14 09:00 by dirkb.

---

In fact, they just use PDF files internally. But they are password protected!! This is a nuisance - otherwise You could just open them in Preview or any other PDF viewer.... Kalmbac should publish the passwords...

The old issues were all created using medium-resolution scans of the entire page and assembled it in Adobe Digital Editions. They end up being basically password protected PDFs and printing articles form them is... eh. They did it on the cheap and charged a premium for the DVD's; it's not a good combination. The later issues of the magazines were sent directly to lo-res PDF. Some of the pages even have tears and water stains, not to mention the missing gutter (about 1/4" from the middle of the pages. It's VERY evident when you look at drawings that spanned a spread).

I haven't looked into what they use to search the issues, and Yosemite has had its share of issues all around, not unlike that of Windows 8. In fact, I'm not sure the installer will officially run well under Win 8.1 and there's no guarantee that it will work with anything beyond Win 7. This is part of the problem with a publishing company doing it on the cheap, they get what they paid for (or they got screwed too). Kalmbach was kind enough to offer me a refund less than a week after purchase, as I sent them an email expressing my displeasure on how poorly this was executed. I took them up on it and sent back the DVDs.

Running the crude app in Parallels or Fusion will be an excruciating experience. The app is slow in its native environment (even on an SSD) and under visualization it's worse; much worse. Bootcamp would work but be rather cumbersome and, again, beyond Win 7.....

I'd have to agree that the best way would be to use a web front end for the pages (a potential pandora's box), or actually pay a developer to find out what they need to change...fat chance. If enough people express their negative experience (as I did), something will invariably get done; if they want to continue to sell them.