Railfan Technology > Night Photo Help

I have a Cannon Sx500IS power shot camera. I like my camera a lot but for use of any night shots is out of the question. I'm new to this and would love any advice or suggestions. What would be best to use track side? Anything will help.

Thanks,
J.R.

The absolute best camera for night photo or video is the Sony A7s followed by the Nikon Df, both of which are a world of difference between themselves and a point & shoot. Oh, and a lot more expensive, as both are north of $2,000 without a lens.

A point & shoot with good low light capabilities can be the Sony RX100 line. Other alternatives that are, at the very least comparable, are the Canon PowerShot G7-X and the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000. All three of these will set you back at least $700, which puts you in the upper tier of entry level and lowest tier of mid range DSLR pricing.

My vote goes to the Sony RX100 Miii current version. Here's a handheld night shot of the Caltrain Christms train I posted here last week:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3597331,3597331#msg-3597331

I agree in principle with Vanakatherock. I don't have experience with any particular brand or model that he mentioned. The point-n-shoots do a decent job in some low light situations but they suffer in very low light situations. Typically the ISO will max out at about 3200 or 4000. That sure beats what was available when I used film and what the earlier digital cameras offered. I have a Canon ELPH340EH that I picked up just so that I could have something to carry around in my pocket when I didn't want to lug a DSLR around all day. I took some pictures in a museum with low lighting and they turned out OK but I tried a night picture just to see what it would do. I won't try that again if I want the picture. I bought a Canon 70D about 2 months ago as an up grade for my older T3. The ISO goes up to 12500. The point-n-shoots with the lower sensitivity will have trouble with good contrast between the dark and light areas. Usually the dark areas will be brighter than you want and the brighter parts will be over exposed. The darker area will probably have a lot of noise in it (speckles) because the sensor and the electronics just are not up to the task. If you can manually set the exposure you might be able to do a bit better. The noise factor with the less expensive cameras is another point to consider. I haven't done a bunch of night stuff with the new camera but what I have done, it looked pretty good. A thousand extra buck makes a difference.

I did a short review a few days ago on my point-n-shoot. http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?9,3604873 It talks about some of the capabilities. It's probably pretty typical for most Point-n-shoots in the $150 to $200 range.

The picture below is nothing special. It was taken with my 70D in automatic mode and hand held. Just a quick shot, nothing important. According to the metadata,l f/1:5.6, 1/60 second, ISO 6400, 55mm. It does show the dark areas being dark and the lights are pretty sharp, colorful, and exposed about right.

Hope some of this is helpful.

John

---

Here's what I think in this order...

1) You need a decent tripod and head to keep your camera stable.

2) You need an adjustable camera: shutter speed, aperture, and ISO.

3) A decent lens or two is a consideration: the larger the aperture, the
better for focus and exposure time.

4) If you are going to attempt action shots, you'll need a really high
ISO / low noise sensor. My experience with my trusty Nikon D600 and
collection of f2.8 lenses is once the light is failing, I don't shoot
beyond ISO 6400 / 1/125 (or so) and f4.0; after that the light is kaput
and I'm taking time exposures.

Dollars spent come into this somewhere, but really once you have the
tripod and camera you'll need opportunity and imagination to complete
your task.

HTH.

John.

Probably the absolute best cameras for high iso/low noise would be Nikon D4 (extremely pricey) and Nikon DF (more affordable but I personally don't like the camera ergonomics) then Nikon D800 and then top of line Canon... That said, the Sony is also excellent and any of the above (Top of Line Nikon, Canon, or the Sony) will all deliver excellent results.

Many questions remain though, are you going to shoot trains in motion. If so, you will still need a number (think 5+ flash minimum) off camera flash remotely controlled to freeze a train and provide adequate light... Ive had a recent posting that used 8 off camera flash on one train, and 3 on another.

Or are you going to shoot stationary objects... If so, many camera's are well suited for the task, use a good tripod, and off camera flash, either 1 flash and paint the subject or multiflash without the need to paint. I have recently posted (this week) an image of a stationary unit, 4 second exposure with 3 off camera flash and radio triggers.

BTW, my posted shots (only a few) utilize and older D700 that has pretty good low noise at moderate iso's (think 1000-3200).

One note however, full frame sensors will provide the best low light/high iso performance as well as dynamic range.

Ive not used your camera, but noting the specs, its is not a full size sensor nor particularly good at high iso images... thus I think your best results will be on a tripod of stationary images, keeping your iso relatively low (1000 or less) and lightning with either light painting or multi flash. A good tripod is essential, do not cut corners on the cost of the tripod, and think in terms of buying the tripod (legs) and separately the head... Many of us have bought inexpensive tripods only to have to buy a second and third time to finally get a quality tripod and head...

Feel free to private msg me if you desire.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/14 07:38 by skyview.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,3605966

Full Frame Nikon D700, train at 15 mph.

Bob Jordan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/14 09:05 by robj.

Thanks for the suggestions and yes my phone plan would be to shoot trains in motion. I see I have a lot to learn and some trial and error.

Posted from iPhone

If you plan to shoot trains in motion after dark, in all but the best lighted areas, you will need multiple off camera flash and triggers.

skyview Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you plan to shoot trains in motion after dark,
> in all but the best lighted areas, you will need
> multiple off camera flash and triggers.

Crews may not appreciate getting "flashed" unexpectedly.

Bob

chuchubobnv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> skyview Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you plan to shoot trains in motion after
> dark,
> > in all but the best lighted areas, you will
> need
> > multiple off camera flash and triggers.
>
> Crews may not appreciate getting "flashed"
> unexpectedly.
>
> Bob

That concern is widely overstated... I've personally never encountered a crew that had any issue with my use of OCF, and I've been using the technique for several years. I get more complaining from people here at Trainorders than I ever do from actual railroad employees.

In my local area, the crews have largely come to expect me, and many of them have my contact information. I've had guys call my name over the radio with greetings and e-mail me days later asking for copies of the pictures.

Does that mean there aren't some bad eggs out there? Of course not, but I think the large majority of crews either don't care, or don't even notice.

Here are two taken Dec 21, 2014 at about 5pm.
Hand held, Canon point and shoot. http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3610074
They are not perfect, but works for me.
Thanks for looking...
Todd Montgomery
Springfield OR

hoydie17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That concern is widely overstated... I've
> personally never encountered a crew that had any
> issue with my use of OCF, and I've been using the
> technique for several years. I get more
> complaining from people here at Trainorders than I
> ever do from actual railroad employees.
>
> In my local area, the crews have largely come to
> expect me, and many of them have my contact
> information. I've had guys call my name over the
> radio with greetings and e-mail me days later
> asking for copies of the pictures.
>
> Does that mean there aren't some bad eggs out
> there? Of course not, but I think the large
> majority of crews either don't care, or don't even
> notice.

Actually, a couple weeks back I was on an eastbound train approaching a meet with a westbound at a well-known location, and heard a transmission over the radio from the westbound of, "No, it's not OK to flash out the train." Knowing that the spot in question is a frequent hangout of a local fan (but NOT the poster who I have quoted above) who practices night photography, I had a pretty good idea of what to expect ahead. Sure enough, there was a photographer out with a multiple OCF set up, and the transmission from the previous crew was on the hopes that the guy with the camera was listening to a scanner.

In that case, however, the photographer had one of his units set up on an embankment, on a slight curve, and aimed just off parallel with the tracks. It put the output directly at windshield level, aimed right into the oncoming crew's eyes.

The difference on why you get such positive feedback, may very well be that your technique uses only the flash power that is absolutely necessary, and you make an effort to keep it out of the crew's eyes. I've seen other "hopefuls" out there with a gazillion Alien Bees, all set to full blast, and pointed directly into the crew's line of sight. THOSE are the folks that tick us off. "Courtesy flash," or not, set up one or more high-powered flashes directly in my line of sight, and I'm going to be cursing under my breath at each "purple over green" signal I see for the next 10 minutes. Make an effort to take my night vision into account while placing your flash units, and you'll never hear a complaint here, or in person.