Railfan Technology > Anyone moved away from Adobe?

It has been about a year since Adobe started the move away from licensing eternal software. Now most of their products are only available by rental. I can say this really pissed me off to the point that I am transitioning away from Adobe products. For years I have used Illustrator, Photoshop, and Premier to perform all of my media manipulation. I never found the need to upgrade regularly, and I waited several cycles before upgrading. Older software worked well for me and did everything I needed. The idea of having to purchase a monthly subscription to keep my software was not something I was willing to do.

During the summer I made the decision to transition away from Adobe products. I looked and there is competing software available that would work for my needs. I decided that it would be a good time to change platforms to move off the Windows platform and onto Macintosh. I used Mac for all my Adobe products from 1994 until about 2000. In 2000 I transitioned to Windows and had everything there until 2009 when I moved my non-media tasks over to Mac. Now I am dropping Windows altogether.

I waited until fall when Apple launched their new updated product line and opted for a fully loaded iMac 27 inch retina model. By far the most important package to me was Adobe Premier that I use for video editing. I installed Final Cut Pro to take its place. I am still learning the software, but I like Premier better. I suppose over time I will get use to it as it is hard to break 20 year old habits. The funny thing is my circa 2009 Windows Workstation is much faster with video encoding than this brand new Mac.

Last week I moved to replace Adobe Illustrator with Affinity Designer. For $50 it is not a bad software package. It doesn't have all the features of Illustrator, but then again I never used the complex functions of the software anyway.

The final item I need is an image editing program. Apple has Aperture, but it is on the verge of being discontinued and replaced with a new program. I am going to wait and use my PC for photo editing in the interim.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Todd,

I've been using Photoshop since v1.1 (on the Mac), along with several other Adobe tools and, like you, only upgrade occasionally as needed (usually because of an OS upgrade that forces app upgrades). I too have been leery of adopting more Adobe products because of their increasingly oppressive licensing scheme. It's the reason I never migrated from Quark XPress to InDesign, I still use Quark for page layout.

Fortunately I've been able to keep an old copy of Macromedia Freehand (vMX) alive even though I'm using Snow Leopard. I have Illustrator, only because some people send me Illustrator files. But for vector work, I use Freehand. That may not be an option soon though so I need to look at products like Designer by Affinity.

Which brings me to them. They have a photo editing package called Affinity Photo that is going public beta soon. Their web site is a bit weak on details but it looks worth pursuing as a replacement for Photoshop when it is released. If you are acclimated to the UI in Designer by then, it should be an easy transition to their image editing product. I'm keeping my eye on this one. I'd like to say goodbye to Adobe once and for all.

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> like you, only upgrade occasionally as needed (usually
> because of an OS upgrade that forces app
> upgrades).

My five year old version of Adobe Premier worked fine until about a year ago when OS upgrades of Windows 7 started to make Premier unstable. Now it is practically unusable. I can think of many software packages from the past that slowly started to become unreliable as the years went on.

I am going through this with the web site. I haven't upgraded our web server in four years and now we are prepping a new machine to take on the web site. After skipping a few versions of Apache we are finding that a lot of our stuff is broken. One of my developers had to dive into our authentication module and rewrite some of the C code to make it work.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Got my first MAC in 2005. Open office was suggested and I have used it on all my
computers ever since. Even the HP's that the virus ate......Swede....Albany,Or.

I own and run CS5 and it appears it will be good for many years to come, plus I have PaintShop Pro X7 and about every version
they every came out with going back to Windows 2. Yes Windows 2
I'm an old guy. CS5...awesome !!!
Alan

I'm using Photoshop and Dreamweaver CS6 and have been using both programs for several years (multiple versions). I was not happy at all with this new subscription-based system. I'm planning to build a new computer next year and if CS6 doesn't work on Windows 10, I'm gonna be left with no other option but to move to the subscription-based version of the program. I hope Adobe keeps CS6 updated for Windows 10 whenever its released.

I am in the same boat: Absotively and posilutely refuse to rent my programs. But I'm wedded to windows. So right now I am dead stop with Adobe at CS6. I do more video than still photography. The big gotcha is RAW and video codec compatibility. I'm wondering about H.265?

For a short while I got into 3D video. I had the best luck with Grass Valley's Edius Pro 7. It is only a Windows product, but in the event Premiere CS6 falters on upcoming video codecs, that is a good backstop. It is also pretty easy to learn as it has a lot of similarity to Premiere. It does 4K, HD, etc.

For still photo work, I hope to stay with Photoshop CS6. So far, so good. But I don't know of any alternative to that one.

Where I may differ from most others, is that I have no plans to upgrade the OS when Win 10 comes out. So that may hamper me in other areas, but I will figure that out if I'm forced to.

A side note: I also use Dreamweaver CS6. Over the version upgrades, I have found it to be more restrictive and rules-based than I would like, as an amateur in web design. CS3 was the last one that let me do simple stuff the way I want to do it. However, that does not work in Win 7, so that one caught me, and now I "deal" with CS6. I understand the philosophy behind attempting to maintain compatibility with more web browsers than Carter has little liver pills, but my uses aren't as esoteric as serious/major websites require.

And last but not least: I am heartened to read this thread relating to dissent with Adobe's current business plan. It is hard to find any such discussions. But I wonder what the real Adobe profit numbers show over the past 18 months or so. Someone in San Jose knows the truth. When it first came out, far more people were against it, than were for it. Frankly, I think that is still the case, but Adobe must be managing the discssions pretty well (see www.reputation.com ).

Thanks,
Norm



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/15 23:41 by norm1153.

agrafton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I own and run CS5 and it appears it will be good
> for many years to come, plus I have PaintShop Pro
> X7 and about every version
> they every came out with going back to Windows 2.
> Yes Windows 2
> I'm an old guy. CS5...awesome !!!
> Alan


I'm with you here!! I run CS2, on my old desktop windows XP computer. This machine has not been on the internet for about 3 years. Absolutely no problems - if it ain't broke don't fix it. I get the impression all the problems occur when people want the latest geewhizz techno, then have to upgrade / patch / fix. The manufactures see you coming miles away! Chris uk.

From the summer I read that Adobe is making boat loads of money from the renting business plan. If you do this to make a living then $1200 a year is not such a bad deal. It is the casual users like us that are generating the huge revenue stream though because the professional shops upgraded every cycle anyway. We are the ones that have no reason to upgrade every cycle, but now are forced to... and to pay for it.

I am thinking over time revenue will drop as competitors fill the void. Adobe software is not like engineering software where the formats are proprietary that you have no choice but to use them. I predict in 10 years Adobe will be charging double what they do now, with fewer users. The casual people like us will find cheaper alternatives, while Adobe will be only for the pros that can justify $2500 a year for the package.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

55002 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> agrafton Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I own and run CS5 and it appears it will be
> good
> > for many years to come, plus I have PaintShop
> Pro
> > X7 and about every version
> > they every came out with going back to Windows
> 2.
> > Yes Windows 2
> > I'm an old guy. CS5...awesome !!!
> > Alan
>
>
> I'm with you here!! I run CS2, on my old desktop
> windows XP computer. This machine has not been on
> the internet for about 3 years. Absolutely no
> problems - if it ain't broke don't fix it. I get
> the impression all the problems occur when people
> want the latest geewhizz techno, then have to
> upgrade / patch / fix. The manufactures see you
> coming miles away! Chris uk.

Some of it is from blind and hungry users, and some of it is from baiting by the software publishers. For example, in digital video, support for newer technologies are often implemented on newer versions to force people to upgrade. I got around some of that by using open source and third party software, so I can still edit HD videos on my Windows XP machine, with only one additional workflow step compared to my Windows 7 machine. In fact, big software publishers (Microsoft, Adobe, Apple, etc.) often acquire license, or purchase outright from open source authors to incorporate the features into the next release, so it pays to experiment with open source software first if you know what you're doing.

I bought obsolete versions of Adobe software (Photoshop 5.5?, Premier 5.1, before CS) for my retro computing hobby, but they're too old for HD video, so they haven't gotten any use yet. I was an early convert to Jasc's (now Corel's) Paintshop Pro in the heydays of Windows 95, so I wasted my money on the already-obsolete version Photoshop, which hasn't gotten any use either.

FYI, I also bought an obsolete version of Final Cut Express for my Mac, but iMovie has been sufficient for me so far. As with webmaster, I feel that Mac platform in general seems to be much slower in processing video edits than an equivalent era Windows machine. I seem to recall Apple dropping the ball on supporting the video industry when the company was in turmoil, around the time MPEG-2/DVD technology was blossoming.

Since I was never a serious Adobe user, I haven't really moved away from them either. To me, the move to the subscription model is a sign that the era of real innovation is over in the software industry. If you don't want to fix what's not broken, hang onto your older machines, and don't sell or giveaway your copy of the image/video editing software that you already have.

You're fine running older versions of Photoshop or Lightroom...until you buy a new camera body if you shoot RAW files. For obvious reasons the software producers do not make their money making programs backward compatible with CR2 or NEF files, nor can they in some instances, 64-bit architecture being one that comes to mind. For the pro shooters who update their camera bodies somewhat regularly and who shoot RAW files, the camera manufacturers update their formats with each new body release forcing software updates. It's a never ending cycle, and for me, using Lightroom and Photoshop only, the $10 is the best thing that's happened in my years as a pro.

Todd, what about Corel's Paintshop Pro (currently $53.99 CAN) instead of Adobe? Seems to be a full-featured program.

https://store.paintshoppro.com/1184/purl-KWS_CBPP_PSPpro?gclid=COz-sKrFt8MCFRY2aQodoksA8g

ATSF5669 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're fine running older versions of Photoshop or
> Lightroom...until you buy a new camera body if you
> shoot RAW files. For obvious reasons the software
> producers do not make their money making programs
> backward compatible with CR2 or NEF files, nor can
> they in some instances, 64-bit architecture being
> one that comes to mind. For the pro shooters who
> update their camera bodies somewhat regularly and
> who shoot RAW files, the camera manufacturers
> update their formats with each new body release
> forcing software updates. It's a never ending
> cycle, and for me, using Lightroom and Photoshop
> only, the $10 is the best thing that's happened in
> my years as a pro.

This where I am. Got new camera not supported by PS5 and wife had new computer so moving to the cloud for
the cost for (PS/LR?BR) made sense for me. Now I am through with the release, version problems
when should I upgrade etc. Now if you need a lot of the other programs for occasional use, I can see
the problem but so far is trouble free for me, except of course I have to share......

Bob Jordan

I'm not understanding something about the Adobe PS on disk. I was nosing around on Amazon and older versions like CS6 are bringing horrendous prices. What's up with that?

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not understanding something about the Adobe PS
> on disk. I was nosing around on Amazon and older
> versions like CS6 are bringing horrendous prices.
> What's up with that?

Very likely this is a reflection of the large number of people who don't want to pay monthly subscription prices. The target customers would be those who are not up to CS6 and want to upgrade before it is too late.

norm1153 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frisco1522 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not understanding something about the Adobe
> PS
> > on disk. I was nosing around on Amazon and
> older
> > versions like CS6 are bringing horrendous
> prices.
> > What's up with that?
>
> Very likely this is a reflection of the large
> number of people who don't want to pay monthly
> subscription prices. The target customers would
> be those who are not up to CS6 and want to upgrade
> before it is too late.

I think for the subscription you need Windows 7 or later.????? So if you have older system
CS6 would be your last choice???

Bob

A few things to keep in mind concerning Adobe. Their software is notoriously one of the most pirated in history, in part because there really are no alternates that offer the capabilities Adobe's provide, and also because of the price of the programs. CS6 is the final stand alone version offered on a disc, meaning you do not have to own a subscription. Adobe is primarily aimed at the professional market, not the hobbyist. Note I said primarily. Their initial offerings of Photoshop CC/Lightroom was priced at $30 a month. After the outrage expressed by the photographic community, they progressively lowered the price to the present $10 per month. With that said...and bearing in mind the professional photographers who erplace their camera bodies every couple of years to keep up with the incredible technological advances Canon, Nikon and Fuji are introducing, Adobe Creative cloud is an excellent value. Ten dollars a month and I always have the most current versions of Photoshop and Lightroom. Over a two-year update cycle Adobe has used for these two programs, the annual $120 is less expensive than upgrading Lightroom alone. I've done this for fifteen years as a profession, so I know where the greater value lies.

I have long mentored my rail photographer friends to simply buy Lightroom. It will do everything PS will do with one notable exception, clone stmaping to remove objects. It does have that function but it is crude at best. Every pro photog I am friends with uses LR for around 99% of all their editing, whether that is landscapes, weddings, portraits, studio, environmental, or any other part of the industry. From the very early days of digital photography PS earned the deserved reputation as the only software to perform post image processing, because back then it was. Today you have LR, at least on the professional end of software, that is a marvelous program. And you can buy it as a stand alone program without a subscription! You as a photographer have to honestly ask youself if you legitimately "need" PS. You probably do not. If you divorce your ego of "I use Photoshop to edit my images because its the cool thing and all my buddies use it and I want to be as cool as they are" from the reality of your actual needs in your photographic processes, your image editing life will be much easier!

Rumors still exist that Google will produce a stand alone image editing program to compliment their wonderful NIK sotware collection of filters, and OnOne is rumored to be working on their own as well. There is an exciting future ahead for digital photography hardware and editing software! Watch the 'net for coming announcements.

You can also purchase Photoshop Elements.


ATSF5669 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few things to keep in mind concerning Adobe.
> Their software is notoriously one of the most
> pirated in history, in part because there really
> are no alternates that offer the capabilities
> Adobe's provide, and also because of the price of
> the programs. CS6 is the final stand alone
> version offered on a disc, meaning you do not have
> to own a subscription. Adobe is primarily aimed at
> the professional market, not the hobbyist. Note I
> said primarily. Their initial offerings of
> Photoshop CC/Lightroom was priced at $30 a month.
> After the outrage expressed by the photographic
> community, they progressively lowered the price to
> the present $10 per month. With that said...and
> bearing in mind the professional photographers who
> erplace their camera bodies every couple of years
> to keep up with the incredible technological
> advances Canon, Nikon and Fuji are introducing,
> Adobe Creative cloud is an excellent value. Ten
> dollars a month and I always have the most current
> versions of Photoshop and Lightroom. Over a
> two-year update cycle Adobe has used for these two
> programs, the annual $120 is less expensive than
> upgrading Lightroom alone. I've done this for
> fifteen years as a profession, so I know where the
> greater value lies.
>
> I have long mentored my rail photographer friends
> to simply buy Lightroom. It will do everything PS
> will do with one notable exception, clone stmaping
> to remove objects. It does have that function but
> it is crude at best. Every pro photog I am friends
> with uses LR for around 99% of all their editing,
> whether that is landscapes, weddings, portraits,
> studio, environmental, or any other part of the
> industry. From the very early days of digital
> photography PS earned the deserved reputation as
> the only software to perform post image
> processing, because back then it was. Today you
> have LR, at least on the professional end of
> software, that is a marvelous program. And you
> can buy it as a stand alone program without a
> subscription! You as a photographer have to
> honestly ask youself if you legitimately "need"
> PS. You probably do not. If you divorce your ego
> of "I use Photoshop to edit my images because its
> the cool thing and all my buddies use it and I
> want to be as cool as they are" from the reality
> of your actual needs in your photographic
> processes, your image editing life will be much
> easier!
>
> Rumors still exist that Google will produce a
> stand alone image editing program to compliment
> their wonderful NIK sotware collection of filters,
> and OnOne is rumored to be working on their own as
> well. There is an exciting future ahead for
> digital photography hardware and editing software!
> Watch the 'net for coming announcements.

Bob Wilcox
Charlottesville, VA
My Flickr Shots

I have never used Light Room though I read all the articles about what you can do. I only tend to learn a new program if I have to. I was interested in the note above about the clone stamp in LR tho. If you still scan slides, the clone tool is your best friend???

Bob Jordan

TheCurator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Todd, what about Corel's Paintshop Pro (currently
> $53.99 CAN) instead of Adobe? Seems to be a
> full-featured program.
>
>

I am running Mac now and Corel is a Windows product.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com