Railfan Technology > Train Simulator in the Windows 10 era?

I used to play (infrequently) with MS Train Simulator. Now that i have upgraded to Windows 10, I find the application doesn't start at all.  And a quick google search shows that others are having the same problems and Microsoft says Train Simulator is not compatible with 10.  Now I understand Microsoft stopped supporting Train Simulator years ago, and some other products have entered the market.  So I was wondering ​what is the best solution these days for train simulation products?   Is there still a serious community supporting the old MS Train Sim, or has the market moved to some competing product?  Or is there just insufficient interest in rail sim products these days?

Can you remove the program then reinstall it from the disk? I installed some Win 98 programs in Win XP. When the install was going on there was a pull down asking which OS the program ran in. Win 98 was a choice which selected so the programs finished the install and ran just fine. Does Win 10 have a similar work around?

Have you thought about giving this a try? I think I would save the program folder from C: drive to a disk in order to be able to retrieve any program updates you may have done.

Posted from iPhone

hotrail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used to play (infrequently) with MS Train
> Simulator. Now that i have upgraded to Windows
> 10, I find the application doesn't start at
> all.  And a quick google search shows that
> others are having the same problems
> and Microsoft says Train Simulator is
> not compatible with 10. 

I have not yet done the Win 10 updgrade, and for a vaariety of reasons don't know if I will. I got picked by Microsoft very early to do the upgrade, and am subject to incessant "please will you" requests to do so, but I am not yet ready to take the plunge. But I use MSTS content regularly, and so I also was interested in this question. Sorry yours did not run, but I've seen quite a few other posts stating that MSTS runs OK in Win 10.

Here is a good resource: http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/forumdisplay.php?64-Microsoft-Train-Simulator. Read the posts on the sticky on Win 10 at the very top of the page in this Forum section. This is an all-MSTS board at the train-sim.com site and its Forum, and is overall an excellent source for all kinds of info (including really arcane stuff) related to MSTS. Not always the most organized, and tracking down an answer through duelling and sometimes poorly written posts can be challenging on occasion, as on other sites. But still an excellent overall resource. The content is available without a login, but to post you must establish an account on the train-sim.com site, as you do for any content downloads.

A number of the posts indicate that the writer is an OpenRails supporter, so I do not know if these guys ran the sim in original MSTS, or through OpenRails. OpenRails is a new, continously updated software package which reads MSTS content in its original data formats, and runs it in the simulator, just as MSTS did. OpenRails is outstanding, with much greater stability, many expanded control features, and greatly enhanced graphics. It is open source software, and was developed entirely in the train sim community. It recently reached its stable 1.0 version, after a long, gradual but solid series of development releases (I ran several of the earlier development releases, and they were always flawless for me -- these guys know what they are doing). Highly recommended, easy free download and hassle-free install at openrails.org. Note: best to have your regular MSTS content installed first. You can continuously add additional content, such as downloads from train-sim.com, later.

Since OpenRails is much more recent, and all code represents current practice, the chances that any MSTS content would run under OpenRails in Win 10 should be better than if run in MSTS natively. One more reason why I'd highly recommend downloading and installing OpenRails, and then trying to run your MSTS content in the OpenRails environment in Win 10.

Now I understand
> Microsoft stopped supporting Train Simulator years
> ago, and some other products have entered the
> market. 

Correct.

So I was wondering ​what is the best
> solution these days for train simulation
> products?  

Much could be said. In adition to MSTS and the newer OpenRails environment in which MSTS content can be run, there is the Run 8 simulator; Railworks (Train Simulator 2015 is the current version and branding), and Trainz as the three main products. Pros and cons to each, and each has a different approach, emphasis and product position in the marketplace. I have all three, and run (and like a lot) Run 8 and Train Simulator 2015 frequently in addition to MSTS content under OpenRails. I do not care for Trainz, which has disappointed me many times. Important note: content is specific to each sim, and is not interoperable. You can run MSTS content under OpenRails, but Run 8 content can only be run in Run 8, and TS 2015 / Railworks content only in that sim.

The short comparison: for realistic operation from the cab, it's Run 8, hands down. Run 8 also allows for smooth and very interesting multiplayer operation via any of a number of public servers, where you are operating your train, and others are running theirs, while being dispatched on a realistic board by yet a third person, all interacting in real time. As close as it gets in the sim world to real railroading. The models are beautiful -- all well crafted. Also some neat features like a realistic hump operation at Barstow, and sound effects like the thump of wheelsets going over switchpoints or diamonds.. Cons: only five routes, three desert, one in mostly densely wooded Florida, and one centered on CSX Selkirk Yard in New York., so the scenery can get dull and monotonous (even if you like the desert, and California and Florida, as I do). However three of the the routes being Cajon, Tehachapi and the ex-Santa Fe Needles Sub, there can be some incredible visuals nonetheless, especially on Tehachapi. And great operation. Content is all contemporary -- going back to an SD40 or GP40 is it for historical content. No steam at this time, though rumored for the future. All content is paid with the exception of a few nice bonus packages from the developers. But a neat feature is that you can download and run generic versions of paid car and loco content, and then fork over the cash later for the railroad-painted versions (which are reasonably priced).

For decent realism in operation, but incredible graphics and scenic realism, variety (around the world) and beauty, it's TS 2015. For example, the new "The Racetrack: Aurora - Chicago" route, covering the famed BNSF ex-CB&Q triple track line west of Chicago, is absolutely stunning visually, and very interesting to run whether you have a commuter "scoot" or a stack train. Hands down my current favorite route in any of the sims. But then I'm a midwesterner and former Chicagoan (and a Q fan, to boot), so maybe I'm biased a bit. Like British or European content? There's plenty, and it's extremely well done, and very interesting -- I have several British and German routes. Content is moderate in scope, both contemporary and historical, steam and diesel and electric, freight and passenger. Most content is pay, so it can get a bit pricey, but compared to the cost of physical scale model railroading, it's cheap (as are all of the sims). The sky and weather effects are incredible. I recently ran a rush-hour scoot from Union Station to Aurora in winter, and the realism of the snow and weather effects was outstanding. Interaction with other trains is via programming / setup of automated "AI" trains, as in MSTS. The process is, howeve, much easier in MSTS, and is a bit arcane in TS 2015.

For sheer variety and depth and breadth of content, it's MSTS. The amount of downloadable content of all kinds (routes, cars, locos, freight and passenger, steam, diesel and electric) is enormous and is far and away the largest of all of the sims, and most of it is free on sites like train-sim.com (you typically must register as a member, and it's free at a workable base level, to download). For historical content, it's MSTS,  hands down. Want to run an NKP RS3 through Lafayette Jct. in Indiana with a 1950s era train? You can do it in MSTS, and pretty readily. Want to run anywhere on the entire former PRR Eastern Division from Pittsburgh to New York, whether a GG1 under wire, or a Hippo on the Sang Hollow Extension near Johnstown? Only on MSTS is it possible. The variety and breadth of content is outstanding, and much of it is of very good quality, with some exceptions (most modelers are not pros, and there is no overall quality control). Under OpenRails, MSTS has much greater stability, very good graphics (although TS 2015 and Run 8 are better), and more realistic operation, although with some issues that the OpenRails team is addressing now that they have reached their goal of a full, stable v. 1,0.

Is there still a serious community
> supporting the old MS Train Sim, or has the market
> moved to some competing product?  Or is there
> just insufficient interest in rail sim products
> these days?

To the contrary, the train sim community is large, both in North America, and around the world particularly. It is really catching on In Europe, and especially in India, with much very interesting Indian content of late produced for MSTS / OpenRails. Three complete product lines are being supported by the community, two of them (Run 8 and TS 2015) fully commercially, with regular new version and content releases, and steady updates and upgrades.. MSTS / Open Rails has transitioned to mostly free now, but there are plenty of niche commercial developers out there too, and they keep producing some excellent quality routes and trains. Take a look at the Forum section, or downloads at train-sim.com, and you'll get some idea of the scope. It's substantial. And that's just one of a number of sites. There are many of them, with quite a few nationally focused (such as the extensive uktrainsim.com for our cousins across the pond).

Hope you can run MSTS content in Win 10. Bottom line: recommend downloading and installing OpenRails, and then try to run your MSTS content under Win 10 in OpenRails. And please report back to us if you can. Good luck.

MC
Columbia, Missouri

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/15 21:40 by ironmtn.

Open Rails is a very active open source project.  Among its goals is a commitment to run "native" MSTS content.

I agree with the earlier posts.  For realisim, go with Run 8.  For "eye candy", go with Trainsimulator 2015.​

Thanks all--especially MC for the comprehensive help.  I will definitely check out Openrails.

One of my concerns about MSTS was that there seemed to be so many crashes and workarounds and difficult installs for add-ons that trynig to run MSTS was like getting into an entirely new and time-consuming hobby.  I don't have the time to invest.  So it will be interesting too see what the openrails guys ahve developed.  I need something I can install and run for a few minutes with my son.  A few years from now, when he is a techie, then he can invest the time to learn the details.
​

Wow, downloaded OpenRails and installed.  It started right up and located my existing MSTS routes.  Had a nice, logical menu to select route, consist, etc.  I only ran one activity briefly but it looks to be a huge improvement over MSTS.

FYI for those of you who may do the same, i am running a 4+ year old Dell desktop with an i7 processor, on Windows 10.  ​As the disclaimer goes, "your mileage may vary." 
 

Try this. Right click on the program icon. From the drop down choose (properties). A screen might show up. If it does see if there is a series on the top of this screen. Look for one which says [compatibility] and click on that one. This will give you a chance to choose which OS the program was set up to run under and perhaps Win 10 will make the adjustments to get it going.

Please let us know if that works.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/15 14:57 by fbe.

Doing this has long been a way to address OS compatibility. As it had been mentioned many times here in TO previously in various contexts, and is often mentioned elsewhere as well, it is a valid option. In saying that, I am presuming that this option is still available in Win 10. Since I have chosen not to do the upgrade for other reasons, I can't verify that.

That said, I would still strongly encourage just downloading and installing OpenRails, and running MSTS content through OpenRails. It has much greater stability, better graphics, a logical selection menu system as hotrail noted, and some nice added features. Its code base is up-to-date and represents current practice; the code base in native MSTS is seriously dated. There is ongoing development, and its team is committed to such further development to protect the substantial investment that many people have in MSTS content. Native MSTS on the other hand has zero ongoing development and update processes going on, except for the MSTS Bin extensions that have been externally developed. I have yet to have any properly configured MSTS content (and I have thousands of cars, locos, routes and other content) cause a crash or freeze in OpenRails in any operating session. I can't say that for MSTS, which had abundant bugs and compatibility issues, and was prone to sometimes destructive crashes and freezes.

The data formats for content (cars, locos, routes, track, scenery objects etc.) for MSTS are locked down. There is no reason to expect that they will change. Unless Microsoft or its licensee were to re-enter the field and modify those fundamental data formats (which has about zero chance of happening -- they've already walked away twice), OpenRails will be the superior means as compared to native MSTS to run that content in an operating session.

MC
Columbia, Missouri



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/15 17:50 by ironmtn.

The argument for OpenRails is compelling.
+​1 on everything ironmtn said, plus...IT'S FREE!