Railfan Technology > Besides inward facing locomotive cab cameras...

There is now a celluar signal detector.

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/communications/wi-tronix-introduces-new-mobile-phone-detection-system.html

d.

I wonder how this will work when you go by a signal relay box with a cell antenna to communicate with the RR? Perhaps the detector is programmed to note only cell signals which are stationary to it.

Such a good time to be retired from the madness.

Posted from iPhone

There's also refrigeration and various tracking devices on trailers, containers and such that use cell phone systems to send data back to the traffic customers home office. They would conflict at some power level while passing other trains.

I have the feeling some folks in the business are not aware of such things, "Customer what customer? I don't see a Customer within a hundred miles of here!!"

I don't know what technology they will be looking for but there are things they can look for to determine if it's the crew member's cell phone or some incidental signal.   Every signal from the phone has a protocol indicator to indicate what type of communications the packet contains.  That's how you can talk to someone, surf the web and have an incoming text message all at the same time.   Usually the metering type applications are short burst of data.  Same thing for apps that may be running in the background that update your location or poll for e-mail.  You can tell if the phone responded to an incoming call.  You can also determine if that call was answered or ignored.  You can determine if a text message was received or if someone originated one.  You can also determine if the call was from a passing car at a crossing probably by the length of the signal presence and if it had both a set-up code and a termination code.  Lack of both codes from the same phone would eliminate the probability of a call made from the locomotive.  You could step off the front step of the locomotive and call home while you walk away to grab beans.  The disconnect signal probably wouldn't be there, indicating the call was not made while you were operating the locomotive.

I forgot what the rules say about cell phones.  If you are allowed to have one in your grip, are you required to have it completely turned off, or can you have it on but not in use?  If it is on, it will be communicating with the cellular system so that the system know where the phone is. The user has no control over that.  It happens as long as the phone is on and not in airplane mode.  That's an application that has it's own identifier that would not indicate user involvement but it updates it's presence in the network every now and then.  Modern cell phones are 100% digital and determining what the phone is doing is just a matter of detecting the signal and letting software determine what that signal was used for.

The problem with things like this is when they are not use properly.  If they prevent the unauthorized use of cellphones in the cab while operating a train, then that's good.  If some manager tries to hang you because you used it while you were in a situation where use was allowed, then that's no good.

John

An electronic weed weasel.

These have been around for a while.  I am told they function like a cell tower does, and detects constant incoming/outgoing cellular data within a very short range.  A wayside cell-based signal would only be available for a few minutes, where an in-cab cellular device would be constantly in communication.  The cell detectors will log the cell number, type of data being transmitted, and other unique information that can be filtered out of any other nearby cell signals.  If the crew member has their cellular device listed in the crew caller contact information, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to match the oboard cell signal, to the employee it belongs to.

Many locomotives also now have cellular based monitoring systems on them, meaning anyone who is authorized to do so may monitor locomotive performance, or event recorder information on a real-time basis.

wa4umr Wrote:
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> I forgot what the rules say about cell phones. If you are allowed to have one in your grip, are
> you required to have it completely turned off, or can you have it on but not in use?

Phone must be off, in your grip. 

Thanks for the technical explanations.

I really don't understand what the issue is with these "cell phone sniffers". Perhaps it's because I'm older and knew of a time before cell phones and thus never got attached to a cell phone. But when I was working I'd go on-duty and my cell phone would go off. When I got off-duty my cell phone would go on. It's a real simple concept really. Unfortunately there are too many people who just cannot handle being "unavailable" for 12-hours or so while at work (I wonder how mankind survived for thousands of years without cell phones) and there were rules developed banning cell phone use. Still people just had to use their cell phones so now we're to the point of electronic monitoring to solve the problem. Don't blame the railroads or government for this - the employees brought it on themselves.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/15 08:16 by Railbaron.

Railbaron Wrote:
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> Don't blame the railroads or government for this - the
> employees brought it on themselves.

I can only partially agree. Next time you meet a person seemingly attached to his or her cell phone, you might want to observe very carefully. Shouldn't be too difficult - the cell phone zombies are everywhere you look.

Intentionally or not, cell phones are designed to stimulate the most addictive behavior of animals with intelligence, and that's socializing. Whether that's via old school voice conversation, the more modern texting, or the ever-distracting social media, it's all available immediately at the palm of your hands. NOW. Last I checked, socializing is a perfectly legal activity. :-)

There have been studies published that claim cell phone users have brainwave patterns similar to someone addicted to drugs. With a little searching, you should be able to find such studies.

A better advice is to teach others how to beat the cell phone addiction? Not answering your wife or girlfriend's calls and texts isn't going to get very far, you know. I suppose making people anti-social is one solution, although it might lead some to become the stereotypical "loner" mass murderers, so this is going to be a challenge.

Might as well add another "solution" to the wish list while I'm at it. How about a better-managed railroad, where crews spend more time running trains, rather than the tired ol' "hurry up and wait?" If people are less bored, they'd be more focused and less inclined to find distractions. Management can then focus on disciplining the real offenders - maybe the Chatsworth crash might not have happened.

Anyway, these so-called "cell phone sniffers" are just more reasons for people to spend money, not a real solution, in my not so humble opinion.

These purple boxes are in all the newer GEVOS and I honestly don't think they work or are enforced. People always leave their phones on inside their pocket or grip and you're allowed to text and make calls when stopped and safety briefed.  Never once have I heard of anyone getting in trouble for their phone because if this devise.  I actually think it's a locomotive telemetry tracker not a phone tracker. 

Had to read the advertisement carefully, the cell phone tracker/monitor appears to be an option to the purple box. So the purple box could be installed without the cell phone monitor.

I was thinking all the connectors were a bit much for something that just monitored cell phones. It would make sense for that many connectors to be monitoring the locomotive and then have the monitor as another 'feature'.

As mentioned earlier, cell phone detection is just one of many options for this device.

Its been explained to us that how this device works is radio location finding. It uses multiple antennas to figure out where cell signals are coming from. It cant tell specifically whose signal it is, but is location accurate of the signal down to 2 inches. Ruling out other cell devices within the cab, or wayside. Basically "it detected a cellular signal around the location where the conductors head would be in the cab".

The carrier I work for doesn't use these devices, but they are often brought up in various meetings.

THX1138