Railfan Technology > Why does anyone still use Windows

I'm having a little fun here and letting off some steam.  But after some recent adventures with Windows I am wondering why anyone bothers with Windows anymore.  For years I ran both Windows and Mac side by side,  Windows for business and Mac for graphics (train pix).  But slowly I moved everything to Mac, more as a matter of convenience than any particular problem with Windows (XP).  But Windows computers remained with other family members.  And recently I was stuck with the responsibility of fixing some old Windows machines.  In that process I had to deal with some Windows 7 and 8.1 machines, and the upgrade to the new 10.  Well, I can certainly understand the unhappiness of folks with Windows 7 and 8.  I was happy with Windows in the days of XP, but when I tried to learn how to use 8 I just gave up, nothing was intuitive to me.  So when 10 came along I immediately upgraded.  And 10 looks promising.  But when I upgraded one machine to 10 the video streaming that worked fine with 7 no longer worked.  I got tired of googling looking for a simple fix, so I reinstalled 7 (they make it easy) and the video streaming again works fine.  None of this is the end of the world, and I am sure that with enough effort 10 can be made to work well.  But why bother? I went through the transition from OS9 to OSX and from Motorola/IBM processors to Intel processors and multiple versions up to the current El Capitan and never had problems like this.  Apple seems to think things through better, make changes in a more evolutionary way, and in general be more user friendsly.  Especially for non-technical folks like me.  I can follow directions but I have no interest or talent for going into the inerds (hard or soft) of the machine.   Maybe that is one advantage of controlling both the hard and soft ware.  Some folks will claim Macs are too expensive, but the prices have come down and with the Mac Mini you can cobble together a pretty good system from the stuff (screen, keyboard, mouse) you used with Windows for pretty cheap.  Anyway, my time is up, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

JBWX



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/16 20:44 by jbwest.

I can't argue with you.  I use Windoze because I have some applications that are only available on that platform.  I guess I could run the Apple software that lets you run Window stuff.  Windows 8 took a bit of getting used to.  Windows 10 was suppose to make it work more like the Windows 7, XP, etc...  It's better than 8 but it didn't fix everything.  Every time they try to fix something, they break something else.  Like you, I found that stuff that works before an upgrade often will not work on the newer system.  Third party vendors are always trying to catch up to the new systems.  If you ran an application on two computers at home that had different versions of Windows, you might have to have two different versions of a third party's software.  That can get expensive for a hobby or home use.  Businesses can just call it an operating expense.  

John

I understand the newer Mac's allow you to install and run Windows 10, although you need to reboot between the two systems.

JBWX

I posted a similar question on Trainorders on two occasions.

Here are the links to the questions and replies.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?9,2116060,2116060#msg-2116060 

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?9,3169875,3169875#msg-3169875

They should work. If they don't PM me.

OCV

Good luck trying to do stereo photography on a Mac.

Stephanie Ann

You do not have to run between two systems.  Use Crossover software.  I run several "Windows only" programs using this.  I do not understand the "Geek" stuff but it works great.
https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac/?utm_expid=4394146-29.8F0qkWU6SbSEgujXg6sJGQ.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Age old question with one basic answer: Do you want to be married to Apple or do you want to be able to play the field?

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Age old question with one basic answer: Do you
> want to be married to Apple or do you want to be
> able to play the field?

I'll take marriage to Apple.  If you chooses to play the field,
one can catch some NASTY viruses.
In truth, to me it's personal prefenence, I think the positives for
Apple far outweigh the positives of PC/Microsoft, although, that
new Surface Book is tempting.
JWR
 

chessie-2117 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jst3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Age old question with one basic answer: Do you
> > want to be married to Apple or do you want to
> be
> > able to play the field?
>
> I'll take marriage to Apple.  If you chooses to
> play the field,
> one can catch some NASTY viruses.
> In truth, to me it's personal prefenence, I think
> the positives for
> Apple far outweigh the positives of PC/Microsoft,
> although, that
> new Surface Book is tempting.
> JWR

Don't fall for the Windows = virus scare. In the past, Windows got 'em because the malware authors targeted the perceived "more popular" platform for their mischief. I read a recent article in an IT journal that OS X (Mac's operating system) had more security updates than even Adobe Flash, software considered the bane of vulnerability. Yes, OS X had more security updates than Windows in recent months. Good news is that Mac is more popular than ever. With that comes malware!

I use both WIndows and Macs. I have a habit of buying older models with the older OS pre-installed, which saves money. Rather than upgrade the OS, I wait and buy another old computer with the next OS pre-installed, rinse and repeat. I did not take the Windows 8 or 8.1 bait, and did not take the "free" Windows 10 upgrade bait either, nothing personal against Microsoft. I went to a local retailer and test ran Windows 8 when it first came out, and immediately decided it sucked. In my opinion, it compromised user interface flexibility to force people into the tablet hype. 

Mac did the same beginning with OS X 10.7.x (Lion). Of course, they started the tablet hype (iPad).

Unfortunately, we are forced to upgrade eventually, due to end of support life of an operating system. But ask yourself, if older OS is vulnerable without the endless security patches, maybe the consumers bought a defective product? Don't know why people blindly accept the upgrade cycles.

As one who has been building and upgrading their own computer for the past 30 years or so, the migration through each version of Windows has been less than fun.  At least back in the DOS days, programs didn't mysteriously stop working when a new release of DOS was installed!  DOS remained 100% backwards compatible!  

My problem upgrading to a newer version of Windows is and always will be the bought-and-paid-for software products that are no longer compatible under the new Windows version!  I've intentionally skipped versions of Windows for that very reason.  When I moved from Windows 2000 to Windows XP, much to my chagrin, I had to replace and/or upgrade over $500 worth of software...starting with MS Office!  It was not pleasant.  My move from XP to Windows 7 was precipitated by my ancient version of Adobe Photoshop did not have support for my new Canon 60D and only a newer version would support it.  

And now Microsoft is forcing Windows 10 down the throats of unsuspecting users.  After the disaster called Windows 8, the only way they could make amends was to offer Windows 10 for free!  Some free...various built in features of Windows 10 include recording what web sites you visit and what programs are installed on your computer and send that info to 'Big Brother' (it's called 'telemetry' in Microsoft-speak) so they can market the data.  And if you are one of the 'unfortunate ones' to have the so-called 'home edition' of Windows 10, you no longer have the right to refuse ANY updates to Windows!  Even if the Windows update causes your computer to crash, you cannot refuse it!  And in the past couple of months, various Windows hand held devices have serripticiously downloaded the full Windows 10 unknown to the users and thus gobbled up their monthly data allocation size and forced them to pay for the priveldge of going over the limits!  Thank You Microsoft!  

Needless to say, all 3 of my Windows 7 computers have Updates set to full manual.  I don't want to be notified of them, I don't want to be warned of them, I don't want them on my machine unless I explicitly ask for them!  It's unbelievable how Microsoft has moved Windows 10 'updates' and 'ease of transition' and 'telemetry' patches from 'optional' to 'important' status.  I check each and every one of them before I allow Windows Update to download and install them.  More importantly, even though I specifically indicate on the update screen to 'hide' the updates I don't want, just like clockwork, they magically reappear as 'important' (and no longer hidden) updates.  Fortunately, I made a list by update patch number and need only check that list for 'go/no go' status, in addition to clicking on 'more information' for each update that I don't know about.   One slip, and I'm screwed.  However, as I have all my Windows and documents on an SSD and no other data, I have a duplicate SSD that I clone from the one spinning.  So if I get surprised some day with a 'Welcome to Windows 10' banner, I can swap out the drive and be back to Windows 7 in less than 2 minutes! 

And for what it's worth, I updated my laptop yesterday with only 'security update for Windows 7' patches and surprise, surprise, surprise...Windows Media Player stopped playing the sound with the video on SOME of my MP4 files I have on the laptop!  I did a Windows restore to the checkpoint created before the update, and everything is back to normal again.  So now I have to apply one update at a time and re-check if Windows Media Player still works OK.  OH...and for those unaware...Windows Media Player no longer exists under Windows 8, 8.1 and 10.  I found that out when setting up a friends brand new Windows 8.1 laptop 7-8 months ago.  Fortunately, there's free software to make Windows 8 & 8.1 look like Windows 7, which I installed for her.  

Lastly, there's a free product that does a really good job preventing Windows 10 from showing up on your computer.  It's called GWX, available at ultimateoutsider.com .  Click on the Downloads button and select their GWX product and install it.  It works very well!

Oh...and one more thing...my friends' wife, who works for a state-owned university, was notified that the all Windows computers will be replaced with Apple computers in the near future.  At least one pretty-big-time customer is thumbing their nose at Microsoft for their antics...
    

Linux.

Despite having knowledge of modern computers which could be easily concealed under a
postage stamp, I find this system easy to use  and pretty stable. 

I meet weekly with a bunch of ham operators who are, to a man, Apple users.

Apparently this system is not the panacea many believe as these meetings always
have various tales of woe wherein something hams call: "weird s***" happens. 

I suspect that rather than demonize Microsoft and place Apple on a throne, it might
be better to describe Apple as "less awful" than MS.  I find Linux "less awful" than
MS.  I've an aversion to proprietary anything, Apple was not an option.

Be Well,

Tim Colbert  K3HX

 

HO HUM, need more popcorn for this one. Us who have trouble with computers use Microsoft products as they work very well for our use and dont need to be a puter nerd to run things pretty simple to understand why we do.

Price is a big driver. I am a long time Mac user and am writing this on a 27" retina iMac which cost a small fortune, but I need a Win laptop once in a while for certian things. So I just picked up a 15" HP laptop with Win 10 for $499 at Costco. Less than an iPad Air. It is prertty minimal,  compared to a Mac Book or qualtiy Windows machine, but at that price price, it is a lot of people are going to buy it. Apple has nothing in that range with a keyboard and monitor.

Scott Schifer
Torrance, CA
TinyTrains Website

As mentioned with my first post, I was having a bit of fun.  Happiness is what works for you.  

One of my interesting frustrations with Mac is the hardware is so good it tends to outlive the software.  I hate to throw away anything that works, and even my original 16 year old AMD equipped Mac was still working when I finally delivered to a recycler. But it had ended up in my technology museum because Adobe quite supporting (the expensive) Photoshop CS2 that ran on it and downloading images from a new camera required a DMG workaround that was a pain.  And off course the newer OS's could not be installed on an AMD machine.  I hung on, but eventually the workarounds convinced me to buy a new machine and a new version of Photoshop CS.  I now have a Macbook Pro that works perfectly that is just barely old enough that I cannot install the latest OS's.

With regard to the cost of Mac's, no question they are more expensive than bottom of the line PC's.  But a good PC is not cheap either.  A Mac Mini can be had for $499, and occasionally they are available on Apple's refurb site for less.  The Mini is an amazing little box that packs a lot of computing power and allows you to keep using stuff like displays, keyboards and mice that don't tend to get obsolete as quickly.  I replaced my original AMD Mac Pro with a Mini and it handles the photo images with no problem at all.  And uses the same old keyboard that I got 16 years ago.  I tend to ride the backside of the wave of progress, so I like to shop at the Apple refurb store.  I noticed today that iMac's are availabe for under $1000.

JBWX

Not sure where the AMD reference is coming from. The original 68000 series Mac processors were made by Motorola. When Apple changed the architecture to the G3, those were made by Motorola and IBM, then all the G4 and G5 processors came from IBM. The next transition was to Intel.

I don't recall AMD being in the picture. I could be mistaken but I believe Windows PCs are the domain of AMDs processors.

My mistake.  I was thinking the "Power PC" processors were made by AMD, but you are right they were made by Motorola and others.

JBWX

Thanks John. For a moment I thought there was an entire portion of Apple history I never heard before. LOL!

Screw'em both and run Linux!!

Out

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Screw'em both and run Linux!!
>
> Out

+1.

John.

jkh2cpu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> callum_out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Screw'em both and run Linux!!
> >
> > Out
>
> +1.
>
> John.

Silly comment if you realize that Macs are very similar to Linux in terms of architecture - Intel machines running Unix or Unix-like OS. It wasn't like that before, but it is now. I've posted bits and pieces in several threads regarding Mac OS X and its roots, but people who are curious can always look up the specifics on the Internet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/16 20:34 by cchan006.