Railfan Technology > Windows 10

I have a desktop down in the basement that I use for decal artwork and such, and an old laptop that I use to program DCC decoders.   I haven't been down there for a few days and I've been in the habit of leaving them on.  Microsoft had the unmitigated gall to install Windows 10 on them for me. That's just wrong!
I've restored the laptop to Windows 7 and will have to do the desktop later.
Nice of them to ask first.  Jerks!

Been there and (they) done that! I restored my beloved Win 7, no problem, just lost time along with massive irritation!  The future bad news is, if you do decide to upgrade, do it before July 31 for free. After that it will cost you!

Yep, JERKS!.
IF I decided to upgrade to Window 10, I don't really want to do that, I will purchase a Windows 10 Pro disk if they sell them.  I am not too keen on downloading and installing software from Microsoft, especially Windows 10.

They are really pushy and starting to really piss off folks, but that does not seem to bother them in the least.

Pat
South Austin, TX

If you can prove you lost business because of their un-authorized upgrade, sue 'em!  But remember, they've got an endless pool of money to pay for an endless pool of good lawyers that will simply wear you down or run you broke..
Unwilling Windows 10 customer sues Microsoft and won!

I have very carefully checked each and every update they try to foist on me.  This last week, they even had the same update as 'important' and 'optional'....one of perhaps 10 or so I've found that will move you to Windows 10...kicking and screaming all the way!  I've also blocked their 'telemetry' updates (tracks which websites you've visited!) as well as their 'remote console' updates (I've turned that off in Win 7).  Make no mistake...they WILL catch the unwary!  One of my not-so-computer-savvy friends booted up one day to a 'Welcome to Windows 10' message and didn't know how to reverse it.  Perhaps the aggressive marketing people at Microsoft are fans of the BORG in Star Trek Next Generation..."Resistance is futile". 
 

There are a couple of shareware programs that will block the Microsoft nagware and automatic downloads for Win 10. I am using GWX Control Panel on the PC I don't want to upgrade, and it blocks everything related to Win 10. Google a download site if you wish.
That said, I do run Win 10 on my new laptop and it is fine - I'm just concerned about drivers for my slide scanner on my desktop.

Jim B

GWX works

All,

Try https://www.grc.com/never10.htm this is reccomended by Leo Laporte and I know of a major hardware and software firm that uses this.

J.

Why was your computer left connected to the internet while you were not there to monitor it? All kinds of mischief can occur as you have found.

Posted from iPhone

I use GWX as well.  It successfully blocks 'direct' Windows 10 insertion. 

However, in my opinion, Microsoft is getting their Windows 10 'hooks' in you in rather sneaky ways.  In particular:
KB3123862 - Windows 10 pre-installation (I may have slipped through GWX as it came up as 'optional'.
KB3166417 - May 2016 rollup of all fixes (wanna bet some Windows 10 stuff got 'rolled up'?), includes numerous other rollups as well. 
                     I previously allowed rollups, probably letting some Win 10 sneak through.  Shame on me.
KB2962664 - Compatibility update for upgrading from Windows 7 (to what?  Windows 8.1?)
KB3112343 - Windows Update Client for Windows 10 features
KB3123862 - Updated Capabilities to upgrade to Windows 10
KB3138612 - Windows Update Client for Windows 10 features

There's probably a sizeable number of updates that GWX blocks.  But these are those I choose not to apply, although they are not directly Windows 10.  I've also blocked remote desktop, never-heard-of-them currency symbols, MSI repairs on HTTP shared devices, multiple telemetry updates, and Daylight Savings Time updates for various countries worldwide.  Having been a IBM/360 systems programmer for a couple of years in which it was necessary to analyze EVERY PTF (Programming Temporary Fix) as well as subsequent OS releases (PCP, MFT, MVT), all due to core and speed limitations in those days, I should have been doing the same since I went to Windows 3, but I was just too busy.  Now that I am retired, I have time to carefully decide whether or not I want and/or need each update from Microsoft. 

Why do I go to all this hassle?  It's because I refuse to go through the hassle of having to replace some programs that most likely may not work on Win 10.  Among them is Office 2010 (I haven't checked its compatibility).  Add in my HP photo printing software that had to be 'tricked' to install under Windows 7.  I still have my XP computer as some applications on it are no longer available or have outrageous upgrade prices in addition to new features I have no use for.  EVERY Windows upgrade I've gone through (even from Windows 286 to Windows 386 to Windows 3!!!) encountered some incompatible programs.  I therefore skipped Win 95 (almost NO DOS programs would work!), Win ME, Windows Fista (Fista is the correct name from what I've read), Win 8, 8.1 and now 10.

Oh...and even checking out each update, one of the more recent 'security updates' succeded in disabling the sound system on my Windows 7 laptop!  Even reinstalling drivers from the CD that came with it failed to recover it!  Resolution was 3 days, on and off, of applying a couple of updates, rolling it back, applying a few less updates, rolling it back, etc. until I finally discovered the culprit.  This wasn't the first time Microsoft updates put my computer(s) out of business. 

And one more thing...I discovered that Microsoft frequently restores updates that were previously 'hidden' by my choice.  They've also performed updates to my computers without my explicit permission.  They were only discovered when I saw a surprise 'Please Wait...Configuring Windows' message during shutdown or power up and I did NOT do any Windows updates!

If it were up to me, I'd consider a criminal lawsuit against them for criminal trespass and criminal damage to my computer.  Would you let General Motors to replace your car sitting in your driveway with a newer, less capable/less safe/less secure one without your permission?  In particular, replacing your car with one that has defective brakes?  Airbags?  Crash worthiness?  Gets worse gas mileage?  

Call me a control freak or whatever.  These days, it's "My way or NO way!"  when it comes to MY computers.

 

I am not happy with a lot of this from Micro Soft either. This morning I was denied access to my Gmail account on my Windows 8.1 smartphone until I allowed Windows to manage my Gmail account. This included their access to everything associated to Google. Choices were allow and deny. I chose deny a couple of times so my Gmail access was also denied.

As much as we don't like Windows for doing this I think we can blame Apple for a lot of it. Gasp! goes the Apple crowd, this is obviously a Microsoft issue.

Microsoft and windows has always taken a beating from Apple users about how safe, reliable and user friendly their system is compared to any version of Windows OS. How many times have we seen posts on TO where the solution to any computer issue is to switch to Apple. That solution is all over the internet. I think MS is just tired of seeing this over and over.

Windows 10 is the OS where MS has drawn the line in the sand to make their computers BETTER than Apple. This is going to come at a price and a lot of that will be user flexibility. Apple has always limited what 3rd party programs and hardware would be allowed while MS was pretty wide open to the world. That is where so many Windows problems came from but in the end Windows got the blame. So Windows 10 is going to be a much tighter system much like Apple has been. What you are seeing now is the Micro Soft implementation of a wide range of restrictions, controls and monitoring to catch up to Apple.

Change is inconvenient especially when there is no explanation.

My rant for the day, I hope no Apple user punches me in the nose for it. ;>{p

Posted from iPhone

Here is another nice little feature of the Win 10 update. I also was luck enough to have my pc on and the auto win installer changed my laptop ove to win10. Yes they say its easy to go back to your previous version if you dont like it, BUT, what you loose is all your restore points. So i ended up with a few glitches and went to restore before the hostle take over, nothing.......all cleared. So ill deal with the glitches befire i go baqck to win10.

I have three PC's that I use regularly.  One is my everyday browsing PC, one is a Core I7 that I use for some video work, and the third is a Dell Workstation with Dual Xeon processors that cost over $8,000 plus software.  All three came with Windows 7.  Other than one brief occasion due mostly to curiosity, all three have never ever been upgraded in any way.  In all three cases, I turned automatic updates off as soon as I put them in service.  I have never, never, ever experienced the Blue Screen of Death, and no other crash of any kind, or any other wild explanation.  Nothing, zip, nada.  And no regrets, either. 

And before someone might ask, how do I know of the BSOD? That really is more of a carryover to Windows Vista and even XP. 

On this browsing machine, Internet Explorer sometimes freezes up; long running scripts, frozen waiting for some ad-infested site page to load, etc.  If I wasn't too lazy, I would use Firefox, and/or Opera, but sometimes I am reading a link from an email, which Outlook of course sends to IE.  Firefox eliminates even those little quirks.

These machines all run Avast, and this one has an up to date Malwarebytes installation running.  But such software should be on a PC anyway, of course. 

 

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think MS is just tired of seeing this
> over and over.

Thanks to the corporate computing world, Apple's total PC market share compared to Windows PCs hasn't changed much in the last decade so I doubt if MS gives a crap about what people say in Internet discussions as long as their total market share doesn't erode significantly.

> Windows 10 is the OS where MS has drawn the line
> in the sand to make their computers BETTER than
> Apple. This is going to come at a price and a lot
> of that will be user flexibility.

Never happen unless they also get into the hardware market and close off licensing to third-party PC manufacturers. The reason Apple systems work better (albeit, not flawlessly) is the symbiotic relationship between the OS and the hardware since it all comes from the same place. Making that happen in the Windows market would take massive reform and standardization, which defeats the purpose of buying a PC. If MS was really after that, I think they would just launch a new all-in-one consumer grade PC with their own proprietary OS and hardware, and call it something other than a Windows PC.

Windows 10 is all about selling information. Don't blame Apple - Win 10 is not about a better operating system, it's about a better tracking system. Blame "Google" for enticing Microsoft.

I've been denying installation for months - but I do wonder if sooner or later, the positives will eventually wiegh out the negatives (like, accept the spying but or switch to Apple). Should've done so long ago!

/Mitch

Win 8 and just fine with it.

Posted from Android

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never happen unless they also get into the
> hardware market and close off licensing to
> third-party PC manufacturers. The reason Apple
> systems work better (albeit, not flawlessly) is
> the symbiotic relationship between the OS and the
> hardware since it all comes from the same place.
> Making that happen in the Windows market would
> take massive reform and standardization, which
> defeats the purpose of buying a PC. If MS was
> really after that, I think they would just launch
> a new all-in-one consumer grade PC with their own
> proprietary OS and hardware, and call it something
> other than a Windows PC.

My opinion is a little different from yours, since current Macintosh hardware is a modified PC (Intel-based). Anyone who wants to go more in depth can Google "Hackintosh" - Windows PCs (with minor modifications) that can run Mac OS X. Mac OS X was allegedly designed with the PowerPC architecture in mind, but give Steve Jobs huge credit here - he had a parallel stealth project where Mac OS X was also written for the Intel architecture, many years before he publicly announced Apple's switch to Intel. With that information, you can see it's difficult for me to see Mac OS X as "symbiotic with hardware."

It is true, however, that iOS on iPhone and iPad brings back Apple to its core values, "symbiotic relationship between the OS and the hardware" as you say. Apple did a great job evolving the Mac OS X into iOS-ish user interface, where using iPhone, iPad, and Macintosh have become "symbiotic." Microsoft failed to copy that idea with Windows 8.x and Windows Phone. Tech media is already writing obituaries for the Windows Phone.

FYI, you might want to keep an eye on the concept of "2-in-1 PCs" which Microsoft is pushing, a laptop that also functions as a tablet. My opinion is that Microsoft is blocking the non-keyboard interface (iPad and Android tablets) from invading the enterprise (corporate world) by pushing this concept.

Back on topic, I have NO plans to upgrade any of my Windows machines to Windows 10. If I want to use Windows 10, I buy a new (or new old stock, or secondhand machine) with Windows 10 already installed, and that won't be anytime soon, since Windows 10 does not include any video editors unlike Windows 7, 8.x, and Mac OS X.

cchan006

I have not bought any new hardware for Windows 10 and so far have found old Windows 7 hardware functions well with Win 10. My Epson and HP accessories have downloadable Win 10 drivers to fine tune their interface but Microsoft has been working things that way since Windows 3. I don't doubt the Windows 10 system has tightened requirements for 3rd party hardware and software.

Ah yes, Windows phones. I started with a Lumia 900 with Windows 7 phone hardware which worked pretty well especially if you could reach a desktop version from the website. As soon as Microsoft dropped support for that software the web did also. That forced me into a Lumia 640xl with Windows 8.1 phone. The OS has been one frustration after another and web support is somewhat sketchy. The Win 10 mobile upgrade is already over 18 months late and the app my phone has been using to check for the Win 10 upgrade has been the wrong app. I got ATT to call MS support and they forced the right app through. So yes, my phone is eligible for a Win10 upgrade and yes the Win 10 software is ready just not for my specific model.

If I am not on Win 10 mobile and it does not clean up 8.1 issues by September when I qualify for a new phone I will find a non Windows smart phone. So even though TO.com signs the this post as coming from an iPhone erroneously that is not true and shows the web support Windows mobile gets.

Posted from iPhone

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have not bought any new hardware for Windows 10
> and so far have found old Windows 7 hardware
> functions well with Win 10. My Epson and HP
> accessories have downloadable Win 10 drivers to
> fine tune their interface but Microsoft has been
> working things that way since Windows 3. I don't
> doubt the Windows 10 system has tightened
> requirements for 3rd party hardware and software.

I got a free printer out of someone else's upgrade to Windows 10 recently. No supported device drivers, so he was forced to buy a new printer and gave me his no longer supported multi-function printer/scanner. SCORE!

Well, there's an example of the hidden cost to "FREE" upgrade!

Windows 98 and Mac OS 9 were the last operating systems where I upgraded a machine, from Win95 and Mac OS 8.x respectively. From then on, I adopted a practice of "upgrading" OS by buying another machine (usually NOT brand new) with the new OS pre-installed, so now, I had two separate stable machines. Money spent for the machine wasn't too different from paying for the "discounted" cost of buying an OS upgrade. I still have my Windows 2000 machine (which was a result of a clearance sale when XP was the big thing) with video/audio conversion tools that are now difficult to find, but to this day, still work flawlessly.

So for me, it's not about a PC's compatibility between Windows 7 and Windows 10. Microsoft's test engineers should have taken care of that.  The PC industry is changing the way they earn revenues from users. The debate about Adobe's subscription model might extend to Microsoft's products, including Windows, because speed increase in hardware (Moore's Law) is no longer an effective marketing tool to entice people into buying new hardware and software. With that idea in mind, it should be no surprise Microsoft is baiting people with "FREE" Windows 10 upgrade to entice unsuspecting users into the new business model.

One day, I'll be taking the bait, but my practice of buying a machine for OS upgrade should still be cost effective then.