Steam & Excursion > C&O #1309 on the Move

Some short lines SKIPPED the number 13 for locomotives you know. Unlucky. Hoodoo engines couldn't get an engineer to work that day.

Here are a few more images. The first is crossing Warm Spring Road, Shen, Shenandoah Junction, WV. The rest are from Martinsburg, WV. Gerry

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These are from Martinsburg, WV. Gerry

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Well...I can't say it is truly modern steam, but I'll be there if I'm still alive. That's for sure!

Can someone explain those (I'm guessing) overfire jets on the sides of the firebox?

Yep, these improved combustion by adding jets of turbulent air above the burning coal, also used where cities demanded clear stacks to improve the air.

Thanks for sharing these pics! Such a strange sight. They figured out how to keep the height down in the most efficient way possible (aside from 1309 riding the rails herself). Very cool to see. I can't wait to see a 1309 with a fire in the firebox.

Regarding treskadekaphobia (fear of the number 13) on railroads: When I worked for Santa Fe, the 1300s were GP-35s. On Pacific Electric they were combines. As I recall, with the exception of #3, all of the locomotives on the Sierra Railroad both steam and diesel had even numbers.

Mgoldman Wrote:
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> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sign me up for the first Lerro charter!
> > Mitch...are you reading?
>
>
> The thought crossed our mind, lol.
>
> I'll second the applause on sharing these
> historic images! Wow - an MOFC (Mallet on
> Flat Car) - you don't see that too often!
> Interesting how well the fit was.
>
> Regarding ownership - I wondered that as
> well. Long term lease or purchase?
>
> Maybe in a few years, we'll see a CSX
> management that will allow #1309 to pay
> a live visit back to Baltimore.
>
> /Mitch

It still doesn't make any sense to me why CSX management is so anti steam. Sure would've been a lot better to have seen 1309 dead in tow on the tracks behind a diesel rather than separated and piggy backing. But at least it will have a second chance at life in a few years and I guess that's what's important.

apollo17 Wrote:
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> It still doesn't make any sense to me why CSX
> management is so anti steam. Sure would've been a
> lot better to have seen 1309 dead in tow on the
> tracks behind a diesel rather than separated and
> piggy backing. But at least it will have a second
> chance at life in a few years and I guess that's
> what's important.

You must not have much experience with towing a large dead steam locomotive. It is MUCH safer to load that big baby on a flat car and take it to a location fully equipped with all the necessary tools & equipment for removing and rebuild all the various running gear/machinery components, without rushing the job.

apollo17 Wrote:
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> >
> > Maybe in a few years, we'll see a CSX
> > management that will allow #1309 to pay
> > a live visit back to Baltimore.
> >
> > /Mitch
>
> It still doesn't make any sense to me why CSX
> management is so anti steam. Sure would've been a
> lot better to have seen 1309 dead in tow on the
> tracks behind a diesel rather than separated and
> piggy backing. But at least it will have a second
> chance at life in a few years and I guess that's
> what's important.

In this particular instance, I'm not sure the notion of trying to make 1309 "towable" would have been a worthwhile effort. The WMSR isn't exactly overflowing with extra money right now, and any effort to make it movable on its own wheels might have been cost prohibitive relative to the overall process of restoring it. Yes, they've been given a few sizeable grants, and private donors are putting money in as well, but they still need all the help and support they can get to restore 1309 and the impending rebuild of 734 looming on the horizon should give anyone's bank account reason to be restless.

Several thousands of dollars would have potentially only put the engine at risk of greater damage in the trip from Baltimore to Cumberland thereby driving up the cost to effect the full restoration. This was a very wise decision to load it on flats to make sure it gets to the shop where it can be thoroughly inspected and without subjecting it to unnecessary wear and tear.

As for CSX and steam, we discussed this at length while waiting on the train at St. Denis yesterday morning. Of course we laughed a little as we compared how Norfolk Southern or Union Pacific might have arranged this move. Norfolk Southern would have probably moved it in a special move probably still on a flatcar set with plenty of publicity about it. (Look at the special moves leading up to Streamliners at Spencer for your exemplar) UP on the other hand would have spent the money-as you inferred-to move it on its own wheels, assigned specially numbered engines to the move and all the fanfare they could muster. (Recent Big Boy move is an exemplar here) This is merely an indicator of the difference in corporate culture between the different railroads. CSX is business above all, no room for anything else on the bottom line. That's what their stockholders have come to expect, and clearly it is what Mike Ward and the board of directors see as their primary function in their appointed roles.

I'm not convinced that it is a "we hate steam" ideology as it is risk aversion to having antique equipment (yes, it is antique) running on their property with their liability having to cover if something goes wrong with said equipment. Outside of Union Pacific, none of the Class 1's really own their own operable steam engine, steam engines are all privately held assets belonging to museums, historical societies and a handful of shortline/scenic operations. It's a poorly kept secret that CSX is truly a railroad that is all about their bottom line. The notion that they have possession of so many historical railroad routes, and represent a legacy of the industrial age is probably not lost on them, but also not something they see as useful towards generating revenue and increased profits.

Can anyone truly look at Norfolk Southern and Union Pacific's heritage and steam programs and say conclusively, using empirical evidence that they have in some way increased the revenue and profit those two railroads are making? I bet you'll be more likely to discover that they are financial drains, yes, everyone SEES the result and it improves public image, but that doesn't always mean more people wanting your services.

Looks kinda' small for an articulated type, about the same length as a big northern. I'll gladly ride behind it though if they run it on the old WM from Cumberland to Frostburg.

hoydie17 Wrote:
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>
> Outside
> of Union Pacific, none of the Class 1's really own
> their own operable steam engine,

Haha! You've left yourself open with that assertion. I'm surprised no one jumped it yet. ;-)

CalZephyr Wrote:
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> hoydie17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Outside
> > of Union Pacific, none of the Class 1's really
> own
> > their own operable steam engine,
>
> Haha! You've left yourself open with that
> assertion. I'm surprised no one jumped it yet.
> ;-)

He is probably correct. The only other class 1 railroad that "own their own operable steam engine" would be Canadian Pacific, if one really considers the Hudson #2816 as "operable.

HotWater Wrote:
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>
> He is probably correct. The only other class 1
> railroad that "own their own operable steam
> engine" would be Canadian Pacific, if one really
> considers the Hudson #2816 as "operable.


I was referring to the notion that UP has "operable" steam.

At any rate, the whole thing is freakin' cool, and hopefully CSX will lease it for future excursion service. It looks like it will fit anywhere, and probably run a respectable 45 MPH.

CalZephyr Wrote:
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> hoydie17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Outside
> > of Union Pacific, none of the Class 1's really
> own
> > their own operable steam engine,
>
> Haha! You've left yourself open with that
> assertion. I'm surprised no one jumped it yet.
> ;-)

Well, they get a solid "A" for effort... because unlike the other big railroads, they do make legitimate efforts to keep and maintain a contingent of steam engines. But I get the cut of your jib. :)

Most Corporate American firms advertise their product. NOTHING says "I'm a big, powerful railroad" like KING STEAM. The free media coverage is worth millions of dollars.

CalZephyr Wrote:
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> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > He is probably correct. The only other class 1
> > railroad that "own their own operable steam
> > engine" would be Canadian Pacific, if one
> really
> > considers the Hudson #2816 as "operable.
>
>
> I was referring to the notion that UP has
> "operable" steam.

Aaaaaah. Right you are, as I was concentration on the "ownership" issue. Thus, the Canadian Pacific is now, ahead of the Union Pacific as their Hudson #2816 is MUCH closer to "operable" than 844, 3985, or 4012.

I should add that the N&W 611 and the UP 4014 get lots of press because they're backed by big railroads and have strong followings... the WMSR doesn't get that luxury. They need the publicity more than either the 611 or the 4014 ever will when it comes to the 1309 restoration project.