Western Railroad Discussion > Oldest freight cars in revenue service

Hello everyone,

What are the oldest freight cars still in revenue service (excluding the circus trains) on U.S. railroads? Do most freight cars have an absolute age limit imposed by the Federal Railroad Administration?

Thanks

DFWJIM Wrote:
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> Hello everyone,
>
> What are the oldest freight cars still in revenue
> service (excluding the circus trains) on U.S.
> railroads? Do most freight cars have an absolute
> age limit imposed by the Federal Railroad
> Administration?

I believe there is a 40-year limit on cars used in interchange service, with a 10-year extension available for rebuilds. I do not believe non-interchange cars are restricted in this manner, so rolling stock in captive service on a single carrier is where you're likely to find the most ancient equipment.

There are two regulations in play here. Association of American Railroads (AAR) and Federal Railroad Administration (FRA). AAR rules restricted freight cars built before July 1, 1974 to 40 years of interchange service. Changes to AAR freight car construction standards effective in 1974 allows freight cars built on or after July 1, 1974 to operate for 50 years. A lot of the older cars are still in sound condition so by performing certain upgrades and repairs, with AAR approval the older cars can operate up to 50 years as well. As DFWJIM stated a railroad may operate cars over 40 years in revenue freight service on their own lines. In fact two railroads could agree to interchange such equipment up to age 50. At age 50, FRA regulations prohibit operation of the cars in freight service.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> DFWJIM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > What are the oldest freight cars still in
> revenue
> > service (excluding the circus trains) on U.S.
> > railroads? Do most freight cars have an
> absolute
> > age limit imposed by the Federal Railroad
> > Administration?
>
> I believe there is a 40-year limit on cars used in
> interchange service, with a 10-year extension
> available for rebuilds. I do not believe
> non-interchange cars are restricted in this
> manner, so rolling stock in captive service on a
> single carrier is where you're likely to find the
> most ancient equipment.

It's getting nearly impossible to find freight cars from the 1960s any more. There are two notable exceptions: some of the 89-foot-4 TTX flat cars (you'll usually find them under 900000-series auto racks, or possibly in the very low 600000s) and hi-cube (86-foot) box cars. Anything from the 60s is over 40 years old now, so heed Mr. Patch and look for older cars on their home roads. These hi-cubes and auto racks, however, still travel fairly widely.

I've been a freight-car freak for most of my life. From time to time, I've thought as I worked at my job in a railroad classification yard, just how many of these cars were around when I hired out? In the past few years, there weren't very many. Entire types of cars are disappearing--the early cylindrical Center Flow covered hoppers, Airslide cars, the traditional ribbed-side mechanical reefers--they'll all be gone in the next five years or so, if they aren't already. I worked there for 39 years, so that's just about right.

Hands down the oldest fleet of cars still in regular service are the ore cars of the former DM&IR.

They have been rebuilt several times over, adding side extensions for taconite hauling, drawbarred into trios and quads, etc., but at their core they are the same cars that locked knuckles with 2-8-8-4s. Doubt any other freight cars in revenue service go back to the steam era.

As others have mentioned, the captive nature of their service allowed the Missabe to sidestep the 40-year rule and led to their amazing lifespan. In fact, only in the past few years has there been a concerted effort to get the remaining cars equipped with roller bearings.

Of course, E.T.T.S. will eventually prevail. CN has new ore cars in service and more on order, so their time atop the seniority list is drawing to a close.

NZ

Go to Canada. Last I was there, lots of 1960's 50' TOFC's on CP.

In the states..late 1960's/70's 50' box cars are till around....
Any 50' wood deck flat cars still in use? SF had a bunch in captive svc up till
early 2000's.

Interesting thread. Are their similar rules for steam locomotives or diesel engines?
Todd Montgomery
Eugene OR

In the West there are still wood chip cars with faded NP markings and others in GN sky blue paint. Apparently they've all been acquired by a third party, rebuilt for the extension after 50 yrs and run across a number of RR's, or so the story goes.

These cars are used in revenue service though they might be concidered an industrial operation. Here are a couple of cars opereted by US Sugar Corp. in Florida. A lot of the cars are still on friction bearing trucks. The cars that are used on the "Shuttle Trains" between Clewiston and Bryant(Pahokee) are equipped with roller bearing trucks.

1: USSC 330 w/roller bearings - I believe the BLT Date on this car 4-29

2: USSC 235 w/friction bearings - Best I can make out is 5-29

3: USSC 018 is a "new" car that was rebuilt from a SCL box car and it has what appears to be a 6-61 BLT date

Mike

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Cars older than 50 years may operate with a waiver from the FRA.

lapklub Wrote:
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> These cars are used in revenue service though they
> might be concidered an industrial operation. Here
> are a couple of cars opereted by US Sugar Corp. in
> Florida.

Correct. These cars don't leave US Sugar plant property and so are not regulated by the FRA or AAR. They're not even lettered properly for interchange -- USSC is not an AAR reporting mark.

But they are definitely old and used for rail transport. There may well be cars of comparable age on other industrial operations -- I've seen really old gondolas at scrap yards and steel mills, for example.

Back in 2003 I found ATSF 206923 flatcar sitting in Gibson Yard in Omaha, NE. It appears to have a Blt. stencil of 7/24 on it. An Umler check showed a much newer date, I forget the exact year but it was something that indicated that the car had been "rebuilt" as it were, to make it legal. Nonetheless, this is a pretty ancient car by any standards.

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Ive had a 1927 composite gondola on a rail train before.

And a few years ago when Durango and Silverton handled interline
freight much of that road in 20's cars.

3-4 years ago the CN must have had a program to extend the life of their hodge-podge grain car fleet. Many grain cars got repainted and at least some got the 10 year life extension. In 2007 I caught freshly repainted IC 755015, a GATC hopper built 12-65. A handful of WC PS 4427 low side and high side covered hoppers also got paint and those were probably built in the late 60's early 70's.

Jeff

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mopac1978 Wrote:

> Back in 2003 I found ATSF 206923 flatcar sitting
> in Gibson Yard in Omaha, NE. It appears to have a
> Blt. stencil of 7/24 on it. An Umler check showed
> a much newer date, I forget the exact year but it
> was something that indicated that the car had been
> "rebuilt" as it were, to make it legal.
> Nonetheless, this is a pretty ancient car by any
> standards.

That car is in maintenance of way service, so it's essentially captive to the owning railroad. It would have started life as an Ft-M, later reclassed as an Ft-16 and probably used in early intermodal service (note the deck railings). Were it not for the AEI tag, you'd be able to see that the class designation is now Wt-16 - Santa Fe changed the first letter in the class to W when a car went into MW service. Regardless, the silver paint and 206000-series number give it away as a company service, maintenance of way car.

There were a couple water cars off the house track at Canon City
still around, believe they were in Pueblo. They might predate some
of the pictures shown.

There is a new reg. that allows for flat cars to have a 60 year life now. Just remembered that is came out a few months ago.