Western Railroad Discussion > Midland,TX tragedy

God Bless all involved in the train/truck crossing accident in Texas today. I just hope the NTSB doesn't put all the blame on the railroad. I thought that any vehicle carrying passengers was required by law to come to a COMPLETE STOP at all RR crossings? I can only imagine what that poor head end crew is going through right now. My thoughts and prayers go out to all involved.

The blame is with the city, not the guy pulling the trailer, there were even police cars on either side of the truck.

MagnumForce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The blame is with the city, not the guy pulling
> the trailer, there were even police cars on either
> side of the truck.


So you're saying the driver of the vehicle struck by the train has no responsibility in the crash?

MagnumForce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The blame is with the city, not the guy pulling
> the trailer, there were even police cars on either
> side of the truck.


Unless the driver was ordered at gunpoint by the police to pull up and stop on the tracks the blame is squarely with him, even if the train was speeding with its headlight off, didn't blow for the crossing, and the lights, gates, and bells didn't work. NO trucker, or bus driver, or any driver for that matter, should EVER start across a railroad crossing anywhere without being sure there is enough room for his/her vehicle on the other side, plus a little.

One would also think that the railroad should have been (who knows maybe they were) notified ahead of time that a parade was routed over one of their crossings. My guess is they would put some safety program in place, maybe a slow order, or a supervisor at the crossing. Maybe this happened, I have not had time to look at the news yet on this tragedy.

On BNSF, when I was working, they would out out track bulletins about the parades at Newton, and Mulvane every year, and "whistle freely" notices for misc. cellebrations.

Posted from Android

This is beginning to sound a lot like the Fox River Grove collision between a Metra (on CNW) train and a school bus that pulled over the tracks and stopped due to a red traffic light, a decade or more ago.
Lessons learned from that one reinforce a very methodical process to time signal lights at places where traffic may back up over tracks. These precautions are to help motorists who are not professional drivers and are supposed to know the very basic safety rule cited in the above posts.

News report I heard this evening said that the parade was stopped and the trailer was straddling the crossing. Apparently there were trucks ahead and behind the rig involved. The crossing gates dropped and still the truck was trapped. I don't see how the railroad is at fault. The signals were working and the train's horn was sounded repeatedly.

This is such a terrible accident. To top things off, we all want to know who is to blame. Its easy to blame the driver. But I for one have sympathy for this survivor who probably feels worse than the train crew. While I've never driven any vehicle in any parade of any kind, I can imagine it would not feel as crucial to obey all traffic laws.

Before the trench was built in Reno, NV the Hot August Nights cruise crossed the UP tracks every night of that week. They had police, and volunteers present to keep people from camping out on the tracks and from the parade getting backed up over the tracks.

I believe the city of Midland and event organizers dropped the ball on this one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/12 19:07 by thetuck.

On a similar note, people who are in a funeral procession will do the same thing, which is to keep up with the cars in front of them to the point they will even stop on the tracks when traffic comes to a halt. Or they'll go around the gates just to keep up with the rest. I've seen both scenarios a few times but did not hit anyone---they got out of the way just in time.....

Traffic lights are not at issue, this was a parade, traffic signals don't count in a parade. If you have ever been in a parade you know how all of a sudden the whole thing accordians and stops very quickly and with no warning.

MagnumForce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Traffic lights are not at issue, this was a
> parade, traffic signals don't count in a parade.
> If you have ever been in a parade you know how all
> of a sudden the whole thing accordians and stops
> very quickly and with no warning.


And this is supposed to be an excuse for not waiting to be sure there is enough space on the other side of a railroad crossing to clear your vehicle if indeed you do have to stop?? IMHO it is all the more reason to be ready to stop short.

I will acknowledge some fault to the organizers, who should have avoided the crossing in the first place, and the police for not being SURE that no vehicle was caught stopped on the crossing, and both if they did not warn the railroad of the event -- at least I don't know if that was done yet, haven't read all the posts regarding this subject, but for pete's sake around here even the local ranchers know enough to call the UP and tell them when they're gonna drive a herd over the tracks. The ultimate responsibility remains with the vehicle driver to make sure s/he has enough room to clear the crossing and if not to stop short, period.

Oh, and I have been in many parades, although usually I was marching in a band, not driving or riding in/on a vehicle.

MagnumForce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Traffic lights are not at issue, this was a
> parade, traffic signals don't count in a parade.
> If you have ever been in a parade you know how all
> of a sudden the whole thing accordians and stops
> very quickly and with no warning.

So true. I use to be a over the road driver, and every year I would do the Lancaster PA Make A Wish Convoy on Mothers Day. One minute we would be going along just fine, the next minute come to a grinding hault, despite the fact that the entire parade route was open to us. Police at major intersections, flashing traffic lights, etc. Truly heartbraking story with plenty of fingers to be pointed.

Chris Bogley
Bowie, MD

Although about every driver learns this at one time:

(1) shall stop the motor vehicle not less than 15 feet or more than 50 feet from the nearest rail of the crossing; and
(2) may proceed only after the operator determines that the course is clear.

It eventually fades and with distraction or inattention caused by any number of things, drivers frequently stop on crossings; boxed in with vehicles ahead and behind.

After a tragedy like this, local residents very familiar with this incident, will exhibit model driving behavior at grade crossings, but that too will eventually fade. All that the engineer can do is sound the whistle, go into emergency, and pray that what ever is on the track, moves off by by the time the locomotive gets there. The behavior of the motorist can make the train crew members "unwilling participants". It is a high price to pay from either side.

This is likely going to be determined to be one of those instances where a large number of minor things that came together perfectly to cause this tradgedy.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

IMO, The city should have notified the railroad of the parade crossing the tracks. Had the city done its due diligence tha railroad is the next step. On the territory I operate on the one of the host railroads, when an event such as a parade or marathon is set to cross a grade crossing, will protect the event with a Form B. When a train calls for permission to pass the workers will manually protect the crossings and make sure everybody is stopped and the crossing is clear, then permit the train to pass.

Another railroad will protect the event by ordering the train to "Proceeed prepared to stop" as they pass the event (Railrs may note they don't actually issue restricted speed, which still causes much consternization amongst the crews).

Had the city and railroad both done their due diligence in providing protection at the crossing the accident would NOT have happened. In the absence of such protection the truck driver is at fault for not clearing the crossing.

So the next question is DID the city notify the railroad, if so DID the railroad provide any protection, and if not, did anybody NOTIFY the truck driver that he WAS protected, or were things just done willy-nilly with little regard for the railroad tracks?

Frankly, IMHO, it shouldn't be a long investigation, 2-3 months at worst.

I have read the numerous posts regarding this accident over the past 24 hours with many opinions on where to place blame, etc. I am merely making a couple of observations, but in no way am making excuses for anybody.

I have been through Midland and Odessa several times over the past couple of decades and am pretty familiar with the "lay of the land". It is flat as a pool table. In addition, the former T&P (now Union Pacific) runs in a northeast-southwest orientation on track that is as straight as a string. One of the previous posts included Google images of the grade crossing that agree with my "flat and straight" statements.

The one fact that I have not seen mentioned could be very important in the chain of events. I read that the accident happened at 4:40 PM. If that is correct, the sun at that time at Midland, TX was straight down the tracks and only 11 degrees above the horizon. All the photographs of the accident scene suggest that the weather was clear. As I said, I am merely making observations and not excuses. However, glancing directly down the tracks into the sun might make approaching headlights difficult to see. Given this scenario, it would seem even more prudent to stop and proceed across the tracks only after being positive nothing is coming from either direction. Then again, hindsight is always 20:20.

Simply said, there will be NO winners regardless of how this unfolds.

RailNet802, out

Today's Wall Street Journal (Nov. 17-18), all of page A4, reports on this crash and includes an aerial shot of the parade route and the railroad route through Midland TX.

what we have here is a failure to communicate