Western Railroad Discussion > Questions about Quiet Zones

does anybody know when the quiet zone will be in effect on uta's new frontrunner south line and about quiet zones in them is it a requirement that engines do not blow their horns or is it that they just dont have to and is the engineer's decision as to whether or not to blow the horn

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I was in Provo a couple months ago. As I recall, very few trains were blowing their horns at the crossings south of town. (200W, 500W, etc.) I kinda remember seeing a Front Runner come in or out, and it blew its horn. But the freights were quiet. The UP still blew horns for the 900S crossing at the mouth of their yard, though.

Ted in OR

In NJ, at least, the routine blowing of the horn for crossings etc doesn't take place. The engineer can, and should, sound the horn for trespassers in the track area, etc as would be expected.

Engineers are required by FRA regulations to sound horns at grade crossings, unless the necessary actions have been taken to conform with FRA "quiet zone" regulations. Just enacting an ordinance forbidding the sounding of train horns is not sufficient. Quiet zones normally require four-quadrant gates.

Of course, if a dangerous situation occurs (trespassers, etc.) the engineer can sound his horn.

LA Times reported that Midland, TX has a quiet zone where the parade float/truck was T-boned by a UP freight. The article read as though the crew waited longer than normal before blowing the horn.

Many "incidents" (not always collisions) at grade crossings where "quiet zone" restrictions are in place unfortunately call into question the issues of if, when and why the Engineer sounded the horn. In those situations the Engineers and the railroad(s)can be damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

masterphots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LA Times reported that Midland, TX has a quiet
> zone where the parade float/truck was T-boned by a
> UP freight. The article read as though the crew
> waited longer than normal before blowing the horn.

Okay, please describe exactly what you can do when a vehicle moving across your path suddenly stops and you're only 900 feet away?

RailNet802, over

http://www.chron.com/default/article/Parade-truck-driver-is-under-physician-s-care-4051731.php

kk5ol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> masterphots Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LA Times reported that Midland, TX has a quiet
> > zone where the parade float/truck was T-boned by
> a
> > UP freight. The article read as though the
> crew
> > waited longer than normal before blowing the
> horn.
>
> Okay, please describe exactly what you can do when
> a vehicle moving across your path suddenly stops
> and you're only 900 feet away?
>
> RailNet802, over
>
> http://www.chron.com/default/article/Parade-truck-
> driver-is-under-physician-s-care-4051731.php


Just what the UP crew did. Blow the horn until impact is eminent, dump the air, then hit the deck.

Read that article from the Midland Chronicle. There is no mention of the railroad doing anything wrong; in fact, it says UP provided safety training to drivers for Smith Industries (the firm that donated the trucks for the parade). It also notes that driving onto a railroad crossing when the protection is active (which it was) is a violation of FRA regulations and can involve civil penalties. It also said that Midland police are considering criminal charges against the truck driver, who entered the crossing one second after the protection activated.

Here in Nevada, IA there is absolutely no use of the horn, unless one or all of the following occur (According to UP's SSI):

Men or equipment on or near the tracks.
The use of the bell does NOT get the attention of men or equipment on or near the tracks
When the head end or rear of two trains meet near the vicinity of a grade crossing.

I had someone telling me that "At 3 am a train went by and right as it was by my house, the engineer blew the horn. That should have not happened because I live right next to the tracks and it is illegal to blow the horn in a quiet zone." It is not illegal, it doesn't matter if you live 5 blocks from the tracks or 150 feet from the tracks, if there is something on or near the tracks that will foul the movement of a train, the horn must be blown for safety measures. Some people just don't get it, they think trains can stop on a dime or swerve out of the way. Hope this helps the topic.

Max

Here's the language from the federal regulation. The engineer always has the right to use the horn in an emergency and as the regulation addresses in a number of locations the federal regulation preempts any state regulation.

§ 222.23 How does this regulation affect
sounding of a horn during an emergency or
other situations?
(a)(1) Notwithstanding any other
provision of this part, a locomotive
engineer may sound the locomotive
horn to provide a warning to animals,
vehicle operators, pedestrians,
trespassers or crews on other trains in
an emergency situation if, in the
locomotive engineer’s sole judgment,
such action is appropriate in order to
prevent imminent injury, death, or
property damage.
(2) Notwithstanding any other
provision of this part, including
provisions addressing the establishment
of a quiet zone, limits on the length of
time in which a horn may be sounded,
or installation of wayside horns within
quiet zones, this part does not preclude
the sounding of locomotive horns in
emergency situations, nor does it
impose a legal duty to sound the
locomotive horn in such situations.

MaximumRails Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here in Nevada, IA there is absolutely no use of
> the horn, unless one or all of the following occur
> (According to UP's SSI):
>
> Men or equipment on or near the tracks.
> The use of the bell does NOT get the attention of
> men or equipment on or near the tracks
> When the head end or rear of two trains meet near
> the vicinity of a grade crossing.
>
> I had someone telling me that "At 3 am a train
> went by and right as it was by my house, the
> engineer blew the horn. That should have not
> happened because I live right next to the tracks
> and it is illegal to blow the horn in a quiet
> zone." It is not illegal, it doesn't matter if you
> live 5 blocks from the tracks or 150 feet from the
> tracks, if there is something on or near the
> tracks that will foul the movement of a train, the
> horn must be blown for safety measures. Some
> people just don't get it, they think trains can
> stop on a dime or swerve out of the way. Hope this
> helps the topic.
>
> Max


I railroaded out of Kansas City for decades before they put in our first QZ. By force of habit, "sleep walking" what every you call it, I was amazed how often I caught myself automatically trying to blow for that crossing with out thinking. Even by the time I retired, and it had been in effect about two years, I found myself getting ready NOT to blow for that crossing miles in advance. Constantly reminding myself until I was past it. And, just like everybody else on the roster, when engaged in a lively conversation with the conductor, found my self blowing for it until he fianlly got my attention and I stopped. The RFE even gave us a "grace' period because it was so engrained in our heads to blow for that crossing. One trip you're in trouble for not blowing enough, the next trip, you're in trouble if you do! In fact, so many guys would forget about it, the neighborhood would call in and complain with engine numbers to turn us in. The city even put up a horn activated video camera that was up for several months to record us blowing for the QZ crossing, so they could take to the office building and play it for our managers. And by the way, Not sure if it's been mentioned on these threads or not, but when they first started to think about this QZ and others, one of the stipulations was that the city that owned the crossing had to take on the liability for accidents after that. Not sure it it was just that one city or all of them.

> Not sure if it's been mentioned on these
> threads or not, but when they first started to
> think about this QZ and others, one of the
> stipulations was that the city that owned the
> crossing had to take on the liability for
> accidents after that. Not sure it it was just that
> one city or all of them.

I believe that it is standard for all QZs that the city or whoever owns the crossing takes on the liability (probably a few exceptions as always).

Houston, TX and the urban areas now have several Quiet Zones. We're also blessed with plenty of souls whom make horn blowing necessary within those zones. Hardly an hour passes without some train reporting to one of the terminal dispatchers having had to use their horn to warn someone inattentive 'sleepwalker/driver/etc.' for whatever.

RailNet802, out

From the official UTA FrontRunner website...

"The quiet zone will be implemented by the time FrontRunner is open to the public in December. In the meantime, FrontRunner test trains will sound their horns at crossings."

kk5ol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Houston, TX and the urban areas now have several
> Quiet Zones. We're also blessed with plenty of
> souls whom make horn blowing necessary within
> those zones. Hardly an hour passes without some
> train reporting to one of the terminal dispatchers
> having had to use their horn to warn someone
> inattentive 'sleepwalker/driver/etc.' for
> whatever.
>
> RailNet802, out


The way the RR's have their conduct rules set up now, they can terminate a crew for not "self reporting" a rule violation. If you enter a slow order too fast, get by a stop & proceed signal, make an emergency stop without reporting, etc. They expect you to "self report" or turn your self in. If you don't, they consider it the same as being "dis-honest", wich is a conduct issue. So when somebody who is multi-tasking and accidently blows the horn out of habit, instead of hopeing nobody finds out, you call it in and say a deer ran out in front of you, or a dog, or a mouse, or a person, whatever. Then all you have to worry about is if they decide to download the camera to see if it actually happened or not.

ddg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kk5ol Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Houston, TX and the urban areas now have
> several
> > Quiet Zones. We're also blessed with plenty of
> > souls whom make horn blowing necessary within
> > those zones. Hardly an hour passes without some
> > train reporting to one of the terminal
> dispatchers
> > having had to use their horn to warn someone
> > inattentive 'sleepwalker/driver/etc.' for
> > whatever.
> >
> > RailNet802, out
>
>
> The way the RR's have their conduct rules set up
> now, they can terminate a crew for not "self
> reporting" a rule violation. If you enter a slow
> order too fast, get by a stop & proceed signal,
> make an emergency stop without reporting, etc.
> They expect you to "self report" or turn your self
> in. If you don't, they consider it the same as
> being "dis-honest", wich is a conduct issue. So
> when somebody who is multi-tasking and accidently
> blows the horn out of habit, instead of hopeing
> nobody finds out, you call it in and say a deer
> ran out in front of you, or a dog, or a mouse, or
> a person, whatever. Then all you have to worry
> about is if they decide to download the camera to
> see if it actually happened or not.

Does the locomotive also have a voice recording system, or is it just the camera?

Does the locomotive also have a voice recording system, or is it just the camera?

No, but it does record outside noise, like bell & whistle

ddg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the locomotive also have a voice recording
> system, or is it just the camera?
>
> No, but it does record outside noise, like bell &
> whistle


Thanks.