Western Railroad Discussion > SF 108 restoration at OERM

This past Saturday the SP 1006 crew has temporarily shifted our effort to the restoration of SF 109, an FP_45 known well to all. Thank to a recent grant we have begun cosmetic and mechanical "improvements" to the locomotive. The "cosmetic" crew removed four section of the locomotive's sheet metal side panels. The side panels will be replaced due to the fact they are bulging outward due the interaction of rust the area of the battens and, perhaps, due to an occasional crankcase explosion the locomotive is rumored to have occurred prior to retirement. Whatever the reason, we are replacing the sheet metal. Most of the panels were "bolted" down with large Phillips head machine bolts. These are resisting removal. We have removed four panels so far but those were secured with hex bolts! We will probably have to "torch" old bolts off but that only removes the head, not the shank of the bolt. Nobody said it was easy. All I can say is--there is a considerable amount of metal on this big engine!!!! Stay tuned!!!!

Best wishes on the restoration.

Just curious: What era will the unit be representing when finished?

There are valid arguments for keeping it simple by staying with its 1990s Super Fleet configuration, with the red billboard roadname and cab air conditioner (probably handy in CA!).

Equally worthy is the notion of backdating her to the 1968-71 era, with the small black "Santa Fe" and Mars light. Obviosuly a lot more work (replacing the steam generator, removing the A/C unit, restoration of the original pilot style (IIRC this particular unit lost its original pilot in favor of a snowplow).

Either way, it will be a great example of Santa Fe heritage for OERM.

NZ

Would replacing the screws with stainless steel screws eliminate the bi metalic corrosion which makes removal nearly impossible?

You might try to heat the stubborn screws while you remove them to break down the rust.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/12 10:24 by fbe.

All of those comments and suggestions are appreciated as well as your support. Obviously, in many ways, this is a more ambitious cosmetic project than the UP #942 in terms of the amount of metal involved! Items, such as the era to be depicted and final paint scheme are beyond my pay grade! It is my understanding, at this point, it is the museum's intent to return the locomotive to its original state as much as possible!

I always find that using the correct swear words, in the correct order, and at the correct volume, will aid in any removal of stubborn bolts, nuts, and sometimes people looking over your shoulder with helpful suggestions.
It also helps to throw things!

KR
ARM

Just my 2¢..why not replace the side panels with a single piece of sheet metal, and fabricate a new grid to overlay? Those individual panels are notorious for bowing out.

That is an interesting suggestion about using a single panel! That would create two problems. First manhandling a piece of 3/16 steel onto the side of the locomotive would be very difficult as well as heavy! Once it was on the locomotive, how would you secure it? The panels are held in place by battens bolted into a skeleton frame. Secondly, although it appears to be a one piece body, it is designed so that a good portion of the center of the body can be separately lifted off the locomotive in order to replace the prime mover! Remember, this is a cowl unit, not a car body unit!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/12 20:54 by TomPlatten.

There is an industrial lube product called "Kroil" thst is quite good at penetrating and breaking down rust on bolts and nuts that you would generally think were completely rusted together and immovable. There are several varieties for different uses. It comes in spray cans, gallons, and 5 gallon buckets,a nd probably 55 gallon drums. I'm sure you could call the support people at the company and get a recommendation on the best product for your situation.

I've had really good luck with the stuff taking apart farm euqipment that has been sitting unused outdoors for 50 to 100 years so that I could repair/rebuild it. I haven't used it with stainless corrosion (stainless isn't common on century-old farm equipment), but I'd be willing to give it a try.

This is a heck of a lot easier than having to drill out and retap the holes in things.

There are a lot of other penetrating oils, as well as good old WD-40, but I've had better luck with Kroil than many of the other things for rusted bolt and nut removal.

Man i wish i could come out and see it! Think you might put a Leslie S5T on it? I think most FP45s had them at one time. Thank you for taking the time to restore this great locomotive!
Sean in Lacon IL

Posted from Android

FP45 Wrote:

> Man i wish i could come out and see it! Think you
> might put a Leslie S5T on it? I think most FP45s
> had them at one time.

It's an easy enough thing to change out, but if they are going for the factory-fresh look, nearly all the FP45's came from EMD with S-3L's, including 108:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1882328

Among the seven brand new FP45's in the "class photo" at San Bernardino that was mentioned in a recent discussion, only 105 had an S-5T. Some of the others eventually carried S-5T's, but all the photos I'm finding of 108/5948 in red and aluminum show an S-3L:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2401545
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1311501,1311517#1311517

Curiously, it DID get an S-5T while wearing the blue and yellow pinstripe freight scheme:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1059437,1059501#1059501

We here at OERM are used to working on locomotives that are or have become "one of a kind". Our three operating treasures--UP 942, SP 3100 and SF 98 (108) receive the best we can give them with our facilities and our elderly "restorers". Again, thank you for your support.

TomPlatten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> We will probably have to
> "torch" old bolts off but that only removes the
> head, not the shank of the bolt.

Why don't you heat the head of the bolt or the head of the screw with the torch instead of cutting it off? A lot of heat concentrated on the fastener head will be enough to heat the entire fastener. It can then be loosened and removed with a screwdriver or wrench almost every time.

as someone who has spent MANY HOT Perris summer days in the cab of our beloved 98/108, I second the Air Conditioner, even if we mount it hidden somewhere completely unnoticeable.

A.D. Harding
Carnuel, NM

To remove stubborn Phillips screws has the OERM crew used or know about ACR bits for Phillips screws. These bits have small fingers to hold the screw head and not slip off. We learned of these type of bits from Honda about fifteen years ago. They work very good we use them all of the time. These bits come in 1, 2, 3 and 4 bit sizes. Home Depot and Lowes have not stocked these in a while but Snap-On and McMaster-Carr have them plus smaller Hardware stores should have them.

I saw this study of penetrating oils. A 50-50 mix of acetone and ATF beat everything by a longshot.

Penetrating oil . Average load .. Price per fluid ounce
None ................. 516 pounds .
WD-40 .............. 238 pounds .. $0.25
PB Blaster ......... 214 pounds .. $0.35
Liquid Wrench ... 127 pounds .. $0.21
Kano Kroil ........ 106 pounds .. $0.75
ATF-Acetone mix.. 53 pounds .. $0.10

The ATF-Acetone mix was a 50/50 mix (1 to 1 ratio)."

This isn't meant to be facetious or a joke, but has the OERM thought of consulting Rick Dale of Rick's Restorations a seen on the History Channel? I believe he rebuilt an air wagon for the Nevada Northern, and from what I have seen of his program he seems to be able to restore just about anything , and might have some imput as to how to loosen those bolts.

TomPlatten Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is an interesting suggestion about using a
> single panel! That would create two problems.
> First manhandling a piece of 3/16 steel onto the
> side of the locomotive would be very difficult as
> well as heavy! Once it was on the locomotive, how
> would you secure it? The panels are held in place
> by battens bolted into a skeleton frame. Secondly,
> although it appears to be a one piece body, it is
> designed so that a good portion of the center of
> the body can be separately lifted off the
> locomotive in order to replace the prime mover!
> Remember, this is a cowl unit, not a car body
> unit!

Long ago in a time far away, Amtrak had a number of E8/9 B
units converted to steam generator cars. The side panels
on these were the same ply-metal material fastened to the
structure in the same manner as your FP45 panels are.
Most of these were in sad shape. The roof sheets were also
in bad shape.

Part of the workscope involved grinding off all the bolt
heads, junking all the battens and panels, and replacing
the entire sides with 1/8" steel panels, welding them to
the old structure. The panels were made small enough to
be easily handled by a couple of guys with a come-along.

When one of these SG cars was restored as a locomotive
some years ago, the shop that did the resto work
simply made and welded new batten strips on over the side
sheets and then welded bolt heads onto the battens. This
is very similar to what the Strasburg is doing when they
build a new tender.

Seems to me that your FP45 body could be restored this way,
making "real" joints where the center section is, to allow
removal of that section of prime mover access, but using
the above method for the rest of it.