Western Railroad Discussion > Our Inherently Unsafe Railcars

I've been stewing on something for a while, and really need to vent. The FRA and railroads are always piling on more safety rules, but don't fix one source of the problem, namely unsafe railcar walkways and ladders. Most rules governing railcar walkway and ladders date back to the 50's, with some modifications in the 70's. Did you know only boxcars are required to have a end walkway, other cars are only required a platform under the brake wheel. Where I used to work, we would get these COAX hopper cars with only a small handbrake platform and nothing on the "A" end of the car. Trying to crossover through a string of those cars was not fun.
Back in the 60's and early 70's Pacific Car & Foundry got innovative and put full width walkways with handrails on both ends of their cars. That makes going from the sides to the ends of the car a whole lot easier. But then some idiot changed the laws and dictated ladders must be applied to both sides of the ends of the car. So now we are stuck with trying to maneuver around the corners of the cars trying to keep our footing on round steel rods. I can't count the number of times I've slipped in wet or icy weather. I'd like to shoot the guy who dream't that rule change up. This wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have to climb on these cars dozens of times daily to set and release handbrakes. I've seen some European handbrakes on freight equipment that can be set and released from either side while on the ground. I'm not one to go around touting European anything, but at least they got one thing right.
I was climbing over a bunch of well cars last night, thinking that is exactly what we need on all railcars. Namely a full width walkway with stirrups directly under the ends of the walkways. A handrail on the end of the car that reaches all the way across and then down at the corners. And a corner post with handrail for climbing up on the car, and another that runs from the corner post toward the middle of the car on the end. This is so someone can stand on the walkway behind the corner post on long shoves. Trying to hang off the side of a car standing on a grab iron while trying to give car counts on the radio while also bracing against slack action and lurches on bad track IS INHERENTLY UNSAFE!!!
Would almost bet that this guy who lost his legs in Wellington, KS yesterday probably would still be intact if that boxcar had better walkways. And where are the unions on this??? Seems to me that this cause would be fairly easy to get congress to rally around. Signal maintainers got some pretty nice staircases added to signal bridges in recent years, and those don't even move (they tend to sway or bounce ;^)

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

I am with you on this. Try crossing between two auto racks.

The European standard of walkways reachable from both sides of the car from ground level could be done on the entire North American fleet without the use of any new components except a longer steel rod reaching from side to side across the car at centersill level.

How about lowering the stirrup steps? If I was on a ballasted mainline alongside a grain hopper the bottom of the stirrup I was supposed to climb onto was just about naval level.
Specifications do not fit reality.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

And these days you should watch what you say about 'wanting to shoot someone' even though most of us understand what you mean. Irregardless in the world of discussing safety, that comment will get you nowhere but in trouble.

at CSX we must use a brake stick at all time for the hand brakes, it's a heck of a lot easier than climbing cars

and try crossing through those old woodchip cars........

66

1 Wrote:
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> at CSX we must use a brake stick at all time for
> the hand brakes, it's a heck of a lot easier than
> climbing cars

Yes, I have used a brake stick. They work well for both high and low mount brake wheels and can reach across the car for end mount brakes. The eliminate nearly all crossing over cars. Vertical mount brakes on flatcars are better done by hand and those cars are hard to climb.

I found the brake stick cumbersome for switching but very handy for securing a train or industry.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
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> And these days you should watch what you say about
> 'wanting to shoot someone' even though most of us
> understand what you mean. Irregardless in the
> world of discussing safety, that comment will get
> you nowhere but in trouble.


You might say I was "Ringing NSA's Doorbell" with that comment. "Wring his neck" also may or may not work as a replacement ;^D

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

A person has to be semi-fit to work around and on the railroad. if your over weight or unfit the conductor,brakeman or switchman job can wear you out! If your gut hangs out, climbing up the side ladder and swinging around to the end platform suddenly becomes a hard task. I used to be amazed at some of the conductors I worked around and was like how does that guy even get on a car to tie a handbrake. Like FBE pointed out, the shorter guys have a hard time hiking their leg up even to the bottom rung of the stirrup to mount the car. Ted try riding the wrong side of a gon with only a couple handholds or the boxcars where you cant hold yourself in close for longer shoves and see how tiring that is before you complain about well cars.

NWRailfan Wrote:
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> A person has to be semi-fit to work around and on
> the railroad. if your over weight or unfit the
> conductor,brakeman or switchman job can wear you
> out! If your gut hangs out, climbing up the side
> ladder and swinging around to the end platform
> suddenly becomes a hard task. I used to be amazed
> at some of the conductors I worked around and was
> like how does that guy even get on a car to tie a
> handbrake. Like FBE pointed out, the shorter guys
> have a hard time hiking their leg up even to the
> bottom rung of the stirrup to mount the car. Ted
> try riding the wrong side of a gon with only a
> couple handholds or the boxcars where you cant
> hold yourself in close for longer shoves and see
> how tiring that is before you complain about well
> cars.

There's a whole work place science of "ergonomics" which looks at the best tools, seating, work devices, etc to improve productivity and reduce injuries, etc. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if BNSF, UP, etc have whole departments of people who analyze the lighting in offices, seats, reach to a keyboard, etc. In the industrial side, companies like GM, etc measure the reach required for parts assembly, and will tool the space to maximize output.

And then you get to the operating side of the railroad, and we're back in the 50s. Might as well be the 1850s...

NWRailfan Wrote:
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...... or the boxcars where you cant
> hold yourself in close for longer shoves and see
> how tiring that is before you complain about well
> cars.


You may want to read more closely. I was praising well cars saying I wish all railcars were so easy to get up on. It also doesn't matter if you are fit or not, trying to find your footing on round steel rods in wet or icy conditions is a accident waiting to happen.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

We had an engineer at Kansas City who was only about 5'3. If his legs were any shorter, they wouldn't even reach the ground. He found it very difficult to mount an engine legally with his grip, using 3-point contact, and felt like he should be entitled to a disability because he was too short to get on safely.

An European example of the kind of walkways that should be made standard in the US.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselbertje/3735648941/in/pool-gatx|dieselbertje

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

funnelfan Wrote:
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> An European example of the kind of walkways that
> should be made standard in the US.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselbertje/37356489
> 41/in/pool-gatx|dieselbertje

I'm sorry but there is nothing about any European design for rail cars that would appeal to me.. Your issue with car design is cause of your weight Ted, if we were going to use a different design it would have happened by now..

Posted from iPhone

Washy Wrote:
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> I'm sorry but there is nothing about any European
> design for rail cars that would appeal to me..
> Your issue with car design is cause of your weight
> Ted, if we were going to use a different design it
> would have happened by now..
>
> Posted from iPhone

Geez, there's the pot calling the kettle "black". When was the last time you got out of the cab and actually climbed onto a boxcar Bryan? I believe it was before the IPod let alone the IPhone was invented.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

funnelfan Wrote:
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> Washy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm sorry but there is nothing about any
> European
> > design for rail cars that would appeal to me..
> > Your issue with car design is cause of your
> weight
> > Ted, if we were going to use a different design
> it
> > would have happened by now..
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
> Geez, there's the pot calling the kettle "black".
> When was the last time you got out of the cab and
> actually climbed onto a boxcar Bryan? I believe it
> was before the IPod let alone the IPhone was
> invented.


I can still do my job and not complain about a car design.. And our weights aren't comparable I weight 220, and you weigh???

You two should get married...

It comes to mind Americans are getting more overweight. If the railroads are hiring then a percentage will be overweight. This being the case equipment designs need to be changed to make the jobs safer and easier for all employees.

The two operating tasks statistically likely to cause employee injuries are throwing switches and using hand brakes. There has been a lot of improvements in switch stand technology. Now it is time to get the handbrakes and car appliances like stirrups, ladders and platforms cleaned up.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Maybe ya'll would like remote control parking brakes on each car, push a button and it winds up. An easy lift mounted on each corner to stand on. This thread sounds like Tuesday at a Salon, lot's of hair driers running :)

sp5312 Wrote:
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> Maybe ya'll would like remote control parking
> brakes on each car, push a button and it winds up.
> An easy lift mounted on each corner to stand on.
> This thread sounds like Tuesday at a Salon, lot's
> of hair driers running :)

The railroads are getting locomotives with push button electric hand brakes and installing retro fit kits on older locomotives to prevent injuries. The locomotive hand brakes have the best standing locations and regularly maintained equipment yet these are the first to be upgraded because these have access to electricity. If electric airbrakes come to freight cars then maybe power used to activate that system can be used for push button hand brakes when the power is attached.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7