Western Railroad Discussion > U33C vs. C30-7 Visual differences

Are there any visual differences?

Air intakes are different under the radiator overhang, battery boxes are longer on C30-7, and the long hood width change near the radiators is farther forward on the C30-7. Look at photos to see what I'm talking about.

Think there was a larger stack as well on the C30-7.

Easiest way I know to tell is that on the U33C, the vent immediately behind the cab on the long hood has that three-piece look: like it's three smaller vents put together, Tetris-style, to form a square. (Most U-boats -- and only U-boats -- have venting like this, as far as I can tell, so it's a useful spotting feature.) On the C30, this vent is one piece on the left side, two pieces on the right side. Hope my explanation makes sense but it's easy to see in pictures.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/17 07:31 by FiestaFoamer.

Milwaukee Road's U33s had a chamfer between the radiators and hood centre.
SP's U33s had an L-shaped engineers front window.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/17 15:41 by exhaustED.

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i do not believe up had u33c np gn and bn did

Dilworth Wrote:
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> i do not believe up had u33c np gn and bn did

Correct.

SD45X Wrote:
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> Think there was a larger stack as well on the
> C30-7.

IIRC, the stack on early production C30-7s was the same as on U33Cs. With the adoption of "Quiet" standards in 1980, however, the C30-7s (and other GEs in the catalog) got the large "bathtub" exhaust silencer stack.

exhaustED Wrote:
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> Dilworth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i do not believe up had u33c np gn and bn did
>
> Correct.


I think you meant SP earlier when you wrote UP.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dilworth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > i do not believe up had u33c np gn and bn did
> >
> > Correct.
>
>
> I think you meant SP earlier when you wrote UP.

Oh yes, sorry, typo...

The step in the hood is farther forward on the C30-7.

A correction to a correction. SP had a bunch of U33C's.

No, there is ONLY one difference that is consistent; all others are minor details that vary by time built or equipment ordered by railroads:
on the U33/36Cs, the hood is wider from the front of the radiators backwards; while on the C30/36-7s it is wider from the exhaust stack backwards.
Simple!
Peter Arnold

TexasRocket Wrote:
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> Air intakes are different under the radiator
> overhang, battery boxes are longer on C30-7, and
> the long hood width change near the radiators is
> farther forward on the C30-7. Look at photos to
> see what I'm talking about.

pismopete Wrote:
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> No, there is ONLY one difference that is
> consistent; all others are minor details that vary
> by time built or equipment ordered by railroads:
> on the U33/36Cs, the hood is wider from the front
> of the radiators backwards; while on the C30/36-7s
> it is wider from the exhaust stack backwards.
> Simple!
> Peter Arnold
>
> TexasRocket Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Air intakes are different under the radiator


> > overhang, battery boxes are longer on C30-7,
> and
> > the long hood width change near the radiators
> is
> > farther forward on the C30-7. Look at photos to
> > see what I'm talking about.

Try reading the original question...

Try reading the original question!
Those are differences BETWEEN U33Cs.
Like I said, the ONLY distinguishing feature between a U33C and a C30-7 is the width of thee rear hood; all others are minor details that vary between sub-groups ordered by various RRs.

Peter Arnold

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Milwaukee Road's U33s had a chamfer between the
> radiators and hood centre.
> SP's U33s had an L-shaped engineers front window.

pismopete Wrote:
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> Try reading the original question!
> Those are differences BETWEEN U33Cs.
> Like I said, the ONLY distinguishing feature
> between a U33C and a C30-7 is the width of thee
> rear hood; all others are minor details that vary
> between sub-groups ordered by various RRs.
>
> Peter Arnold
>
> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Milwaukee Road's U33s had a chamfer between the
> > radiators and hood centre.
> > SP's U33s had an L-shaped engineers front
> window.

You're incorrect, they are both differences between various U33Cs and differences between U33s and C30-7s. Was there a C30-7 with an L-shaped windshield or with a radiator chamfered section? No. I rest my case.

pismopete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Try reading the original question!
> Those are differences BETWEEN U33Cs.
> Like I said, the ONLY distinguishing feature
> between a U33C and a C30-7 is the width of thee
> rear hood; all others are minor details that vary
> between sub-groups ordered by various RRs.
>
> Peter Arnold
>
> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Milwaukee Road's U33s had a chamfer between the
> > radiators and hood centre.
> > SP's U33s had an L-shaped engineers front
> window.

You are incorrect. 

1.  The equipment blower grill was three piece on all U series locomotives from the late U28's on (except for U34CH's) vs one large grill on all C30-7's and most C36-7's (12 NS C36-7's and 60 MP/UP C36-7's being the exceptions (along with one modified N&W C36-7 and GE Demo 607)).

2.  The nose vent in the short hood was enlarged due to the change to electric cab heat.

3.  The rear air intakes varied a great deal as production of the -7's progressed but they all differed from the U33/36C arrangement.

4.  The wider carbody (that you mention) immediate ahead of the radiator/air compressor compartment was a result of changes to the oil filtration system.  The modified carbody was need to address a larger strainer and an improved layout for servicing purposes.

There were 15 major changes/improvements to a "Dash 7" vs a U series locomotive but the above four were the most visible on a 6 axle unit.

You are missing the point; there were U33Cs without L-shaped windows and U33Cs without chamfers, and that does NOT make them C30-7s!
And the L-shaped window was a SP-only option; they even ordered it on their B30-7s, which means if they had ordered C30-7s, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD IT!
I rest my case!

Peter Arnold

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pismopete Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Try reading the original question!
> > Those are differences BETWEEN U33Cs.
> > Like I said, the ONLY distinguishing feature
> > between a U33C and a C30-7 is the width of thee
> > rear hood; all others are minor details that
> vary
> > between sub-groups ordered by various RRs.
> >
> > Peter Arnold
> >
> > exhaustED Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Milwaukee Road's U33s had a chamfer between
> the
> > > radiators and hood centre.
> > > SP's U33s had an L-shaped engineers front
> > window.
>
> You're incorrect, they are both differences
> between various U33Cs and differences between U33s
> and C30-7s. Was there a C30-7 with an L-shaped
> windshield or with a radiator chamfered section?
> No. I rest my case.

Thanks for the detailed list, you are correct.
My point was that the hood width is the one easily spotted feature that differed between ALL U-boats and all Dash 7 GEs. Many other details varied by year built or RR options.

Peter Arnold

NYSWSD70M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pismopete Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Try reading the original question!
> > Those are differences BETWEEN U33Cs.
> > Like I said, the ONLY distinguishing feature
> > between a U33C and a C30-7 is the width of thee
> > rear hood; all others are minor details that
> vary
> > between sub-groups ordered by various RRs.
> >
> > Peter Arnold
> >
> > exhaustED Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Milwaukee Road's U33s had a chamfer between
> the
> > > radiators and hood centre.
> > > SP's U33s had an L-shaped engineers front
> > window.
>
> You are incorrect. 
>
> 1.  The equipment blower grill was three piece on
> all U series locomotives from the late U28's
> on (except for U34CH's) vs one large grill on all
> C30-7's and most C36-7's (12 NS C36-7's and 60
> MP/UP C36-7's being the exceptions (along with one
> modified N&W C36-7 and GE Demo 607)).
>
> 2.  The nose vent in the short hood was enlarged
> due to the change to electric cab heat.
>
> 3.  The rear air intakes varied a great deal as
> production of the -7's progressed but they all
> differed from the U33/36C arrangement.
>
> 4.  The wider carbody (that you mention)
> immediate ahead of the radiator/air compressor
> compartment was a result of changes to the oil
> filtration system.  The modified carbody was need
> to address a larger strainer and an improved
> layout for servicing purposes.
>
> There were 15 major changes/improvements to a
> "Dash 7" vs a U series locomotive but the above
> four were the most visible on a 6 axle unit.

pismopete - this thread was interesting and a good-natured discussion until you decided to get up-tight and quite aggressive about what you decided the thread should be about. SP didn't order any C30-7's so it is of no consequence whether they would or wouldn't have had L-shaped windshields. I suggest you take your medication and try to relax.