Western Railroad Discussion > Does a class 1 really need a "back shop" any more?

A comment on the thread about GE rebuilding Canadian Pacific units brought a question about whether CP still has back shop capability on its lines. A back shop does heavy rebuilding, wreck repairs etc of locomotive power. In many places, light repair and maintenance is done in many other places around the system.

Some railroads off loaded heavy wreck removal to Hulcher decades ago. Wreck trains, etc have been replaced by Cat equipment, side booms, etc. Specialized engineering teams work with the host railroad to remove obstructions and clear the line.

So, at what point does a back shop and its highly skilled people become unnecessary? For Norfolk Southern, where rebuilding is a way of life, maybe never. Several large shops churn out rebuilt EMD and GE power like clockwork. I believe the Oakway deals of the 1990s had Oakway doing the rebuilding, and overseeing the maintenance, at least on BN.

But, how about a CP or KCS? Do they rebuild enough power to justify their own rebuilding / major wreck repair shops? Or, are they better off sending the work to a specialist?

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A comment on the thread about GE rebuilding
> Canadian Pacific units brought a question about
> whether CP still has back shop capability on its
> lines. A back shop does heavy rebuilding, wreck
> repairs etc of locomotive power. In many places,
> light repair and maintenance is done in many other
> places around the system.
>
> Some railroads off loaded heavy wreck removal to
> Hulcher decades ago. Wreck trains, etc have been
> replaced by Cat equipment, side booms, etc.
> Specialized engineering teams work with the host
> railroad to remove obstructions and clear the
> line.
>
> So, at what point does a back shop and its highly
> skilled people become unnecessary? For Norfolk
> Southern, where rebuilding is a way of life, maybe
> never. Several large shops churn out rebuilt EMD
> and GE power like clockwork. I believe the Oakway
> deals of the 1990s had Oakway doing the
> rebuilding, and overseeing the maintenance, at
> least on BN.
>
> But, how about a CP or KCS? Do they rebuild
> enough power to justify their own rebuilding /
> major wreck repair shops? Or, are they better off
> sending the work to a specialist?

The wreck recovery business was a natural as the carriers had to maintain lots of equipment that (if you were lucky) seldom got called out.

The Oakway deal was in 1986.  Oakway was the owner but EMD maintained the locomotives.  This deal evolved over the life of the contract.  Initially EMD did 100% of the maintenance at a shop in Trinidad Colorado.  After a year it evolved to where EMD supervised the maintenance while BN folks did more and more of the actual work as time progressed.

However your point is well taken, if you do not have a steady stream of work, are you better off using contract shops?  The WP did this in the 1970's sending wreck rebuilds and then later the complete rebuild/overhaul of their GP35's and early GP40's to MK.
 

About the "Oakways": Oakway was actually EMD owned, a shadow corporation that owned the units. BN
bought the power the units generated. The whole business was an attempt to lower costs. This
changed right after the BNSF merger and the Oakways became EMDX. AFAIK, none were ever rebuilt.

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

ntharalson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About the "Oakways": Oakway was actually EMD
> owned, a shadow corporation that owned the units.
> BN
> bought the power the units generated. The whole
> business was an attempt to lower costs. This
> changed right after the BNSF merger and the
> Oakways became EMDX. AFAIK, none were ever
> rebuilt.
>
> Nick Tharalson,
> Marion, IA

They were actually owned by Connell Grain Corporation. 

RR's want to outsouce everthing, any company that doesn't have rr retirement can do it for less, and not have unions to constrain work.

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RR's want to outsouce everthing, any company that
> doesn't have rr retirement can do it for less, and
> not have unions to constrain work.


It's not so much the Railroad Retirement but the FELA train chasing lawyers. Railroads are self-insured under FELA rather than Worker's Comp insurance which makes the railroad the insurance carrier where even a minor accident can get prohibitively expensive....far more than the difference between Railroad Retirement and Social Security/Workers comp premiums combined.

Contractors, on the other hand, carry whatever limits of liability and workers comp insurance the railroad requires to work on their property. Thus in the event of an accident it is reported as a contractor injury on the monthly FRA Form 6180.

Dick Samuels
Oregon Pacific Railroad



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/17 11:18 by EMDSW-1.

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RR's want to outsouce everthing, any company that
> doesn't have rr retirement can do it for less, and
> not have unions to constrain work.


Unions don't "constrain" work. Unless getting a living wage, knowing your job description, and having some due process if your boss has a bad day is what you mean.

As for having company backshops, maybe it is economical, maybe not. However, the power gets older every year, and there might not be a contractor willing to risk his capital by promoting a rebuilding program, so then what? Do it yourself.

As we see every day, yesterday's road power still earns its keep in yard and transfer service, thanks to backshops. A lot of EMD power is in its 2nd incarnation with new cabs, RCO controls, etc, and can keep going for decades longer.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A comment on the thread about GE rebuilding
> Canadian Pacific units brought a question about
> whether CP still has back shop capability on its
> lines. A back shop does heavy rebuilding, wreck
> repairs etc of locomotive power. In many places,
> light repair and maintenance is done in many other
> places around the system.
>
> Some railroads off loaded heavy wreck removal to
> Hulcher decades ago. Wreck trains, etc have been
> replaced by Cat equipment, side booms, etc.
> Specialized engineering teams work with the host
> railroad to remove obstructions and clear the
> line.
>
> So, at what point does a back shop and its highly
> skilled people become unnecessary? For Norfolk
> Southern, where rebuilding is a way of life, maybe
> never. Several large shops churn out rebuilt EMD
> and GE power like clockwork. I believe the Oakway
> deals of the 1990s had Oakway doing the
> rebuilding, and overseeing the maintenance, at
> least on BN.
>
> But, how about a CP or KCS? Do they rebuild
> enough power to justify their own rebuilding /
> major wreck repair shops? Or, are they better off
> sending the work to a specialist?

UP still has a very large, and modern, back shop in North Little Rock; and UP uses it very extensively. BNSF still does some work at it's back shop in Topeka.

I was going to say the same thing. BNSF's Topeka, KS shops employ a LOT of people and do a ton of work on locomotives from across the system.

- Jeff Carlson

spwolfmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UP still has a very large, and modern, back shop
> in North Little Rock; and UP uses it very
> extensively. BNSF still does some work at it's
> back shop in Topeka.

bnsfsd70 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was going to say the same thing. BNSF's Topeka,
> KS shops employ a LOT of people and do a ton of
> work on locomotives from across the system.
>
> - Jeff Carlson
>
> spwolfmtn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > UP still has a very large, and modern, back
> shop
> > in North Little Rock; and UP uses it very
> > extensively. BNSF still does some work at it's
> > back shop in Topeka.

But, does a Kansas City Southern or Canadian Pacific have a need for its own back shop? I think there's general agreement that UP and BNSF generate enough work to keep people in a heavy repair shop or shops busy.

And when I was a Carman in Topeka during the 70's, part of the shop was building brand new freight cars. I didn't think the shops would ever go away, because the East Field was always full of heavy wrecks waiting to be dragged into the shop for repairs & rebuilding. Nobody ever thought they would ever close down either wreck repair, or the new car line. But look at it now, and what you can see could go away in a heart beat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/17 14:31 by LocoPilot750.