Western Railroad Discussion > Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s?

The thread about the Santa Fe 92, which is currently
being worked on by NRE in Silvis, Illinois, got me to
wondering about this.

Are there any locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s
in which all 20 cylinders are still working as originally
delivered, with all other parts needed for all 20 cylinders
to operate at full power? If so, where, and on what RRs and
what are the locomotives' numbers? I don't think the SD-45s
the MRL had until recently still had all 20 cylinders functioning,
but I do not know for sure. that is just a guess based on reading
that the SP and other RRs had blanked off 4 of the cylinders, and
had shortened the crankshafts on those prime movers because, as I
read, those crankshafts were so long that they sagged under their
own weight. Or that is what I remember reading. I also read
something somewhere that said the metallurgy back in the late 60s
when locomotives were designed and built with 20-645s was not good
enough back then to allow making a long crankshaft that would not
sag under its own weight. Or so I think I remember reading.

TIA for any answers!

(I loves me my locos with 20-645s! What monsters!! <G> )

MRL still has 4 SD45s with 20 cyl prime movers stored in the old NP Livingston back shop. They are for sale but not donation.

The shortline I work for, Eastern Washington Gateway has the former MRL 328 and 329, both with 20 cylinder engines. 329 is going to the shop soon for a new turbo, but the 328 is still working. Heading west on a train tonight.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

Not locomotives, but there are several lake freighters on the great lakes with 20-645 engines at 3600 or more HP in regular service.

Former SCL 2024, now privately owned and restored as shown here to its SCL identity, still has its 20 cylinder engine. It ran this past weekend disguised as Clinchfield 3632 for the CSX Santa Train.

---

---

Kyle, MNA SD45T-2s still 20s. Think the ex ATSF SD45-2 is as well.
Crankcase supports the crank. No sagging.
As for blanking the cylinders off?? Uh no. The blocks were specially cut and reassembled as 16 cylinders. Quite the feat. New cranks. No shortening.

Ohio Central has a ex SP SD45, although derated to 3200hp in the SP GRIP program. Same with the B&P units.
Is there still one at a rock pit back east? Blue paint?
What about the EL painted SD45-2 NS did? Still a 20?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/17 21:02 by SD45X.

Woo-HOO!! 20-645s still exist AND some still run!!

THANK you, guys, each of you, for the very speedy replies
and all the neat info.

"Foamductor" (what a great "handle" :) --
Yes, those lake freighters do count, too, after all.
I had not thought of ships when I wrote my original post.

SD45X --
Thanks for the great info and the corrections and photos.
It is simply awesome that that SCL SD45 still exists AND
runs with her original unmodified 20-645 AND was part of
CSX's Santa Train that ran on Clinchfield RoW, and that
had that beautiful and authentic Clinchfield F unit on
the point.

It is wonderful to me that a number of locomotives -- and
some lake freighters -- still operate with unmodified 20-645s.

The crankshaft issue is I think overrated as to the lack of popularity for the SD45 versus the SD40.
The SD45's developed a reputation for being fuel guzzlers. This makes sense considering the SD45 had 180.0 HP per cylinder whereas the SD40 had 187.5 HP per cylinder.
As regards the Southern Railway, after first acquiring seventy SD45's, they next acquired thirty-one SD40's followed by one hundred twenty eight SD40-2's. So after going to the sixteen cylinder model, there was no turning back. A Southern official based in Atlanta told me the SD45's ran fine. He said they ran satisfactorily on fast manifests and heavy coal trains; however, they were fuel guzzlers.
ALLEN

"Hustle Muscle" at the Duluth MN museum still has her 20 cylinder Prime mover and is operable. I agree with you, there was nothing like 4 of those monsters on the head end of a fruit block going over The Hill. I miss that sound.

Posted from Android

Although not directly answering the question, there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they were put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had.

Posted from Android

Brasspounder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Although not directly answering the question,
> there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they were
> put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had.
>
> Posted from Android

Do they hum and throb like the 645, are do they just sound like a louder 710?

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brasspounder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Although not directly answering the question,
> > there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they
> were
> > put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had.
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> Do they hum and throb like the 645, are do they
> just sound like a louder 710?

A mix of both really. Its a very smooth sounding engine like the 20-645, but not the same pitch as the 20-645.

Foamductor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coach Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Brasspounder Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Although not directly answering the question,
> > > there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they
> > were
> > > put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had.
> > >
> > > Posted from Android
> >
> > Do they hum and throb like the 645, are do they
> > just sound like a louder 710?
>
> A mix of both really. Its a very smooth sounding
> engine like the 20-645, but not the same pitch as
> the 20-645.

The 20-645E3 prime mover in the SD45 model, was NOT equipped with an exhaust silencer, thus those units would be "louder" than an SD45-2 (all -2 model were equipped with exhaust silencers). Concerning the 20-710, which were also equipped with exhaust silencers, and will thus sound "smoother & quieter".

As a side note, the absolute "loudest" EMD locomotive was the model DDA40X, having two 16-645F3 prime movers, at 950 RPM and NO EXHAUST SILENCERS!

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Foamductor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > coach Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Brasspounder Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Although not directly answering the
> question,
> > > > there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they
> > > were
> > > > put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had.
> > > >
> > > > Posted from Android
> > >
> > > Do they hum and throb like the 645, are do
> they
> > > just sound like a louder 710?
> >
> > A mix of both really. Its a very smooth
> sounding
> > engine like the 20-645, but not the same pitch
> as
> > the 20-645.
>
> The 20-645E3 prime mover in the SD45 model, was
> NOT equipped with an exhaust silencer, thus those
> units would be "louder" than an SD45-2 (all -2
> model were equipped with exhaust silencers).
> Concerning the 20-710, which were also equipped
> with exhaust silencers, and will thus sound
> "smoother & quieter".
>
> As a side note, the absolute "loudest" EMD
> locomotive was the model DDA40X, having two
> 16-645F3 prime movers, at 950 RPM and NO EXHAUST
> SILENCERS!

Love it!, the SD80Macs of NS Conral sound awesome they shake the earth

There's DSB MZ III operated by either Qube Logistics or LVRF that is a Swedish locomotive built with a EMD 20-645E3 , maybe stored but I think still running operation in Australia.

https://www.railpage.com.au/locos/14-class-ex-dsb-mziii-class/1427

Trainboss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Hustle Muscle" at the Duluth MN museum still has
> her 20 cylinder Prime mover and is operable.

Update: GN 400, the Hustle Muscle, is at the Minnesota Transportation Museum in St. Paul, inoperable.

-John

SD45X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>What about the EL painted SD45-2 NS did? Still a 20?

No. Of the six former EL SD45-2's on the NS roster, three (1700-1702) have had the original 20-cylinder engine replaced with an EMD 16-cylinder 645E3 model and are rated at 3,000 horsepower, while the other three (1703-1705) retain their EMD 20-cylinder 645E3 engine, but the horsepower rating was downgraded from 3,600 to 3,000 horsepower.

http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/1700.html


Chris Toth
NSDash9.com

LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trainboss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Hustle Muscle" at the Duluth MN museum still
> has
> > her 20 cylinder Prime mover and is operable.
>
> Update: GN 400, the Hustle Muscle, is at the
> Minnesota Transportation Museum in St. Paul,
> inoperable.
>
> -John

I've been told the engine has a bad crankshaft. BNSF reportedly will fix it,
I assume when they find the parts. I do not believe the crankshaft issue of
GN 400 is related to the earlier discussion. There's no timetable I'm currently
aware of for it's return to service. You might want to check the GN Historical
Society site for more details.

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

There's a drone Video over the NRE facility on YouTube, amazing sight with all the different models in storage or being used for parts, rebuilds etc. Almost a history of EMD's progression into the larger modern locomotives.

ntharalson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been told the engine has a bad crankshaft.
> BNSF reportedly will fix it,
> I assume when they find the parts. I do not
> believe the crankshaft issue of
> GN 400 is related to the earlier discussion.

I read that the crankshaft broke while it was being load-tested at Northtown. BNSF donated the engine out of SD45-2 GN 6470.