Western Railroad Discussion > Future of the Oil Cans

I've been hearing alot of rumors that the coast oil cans are on their way out. Specifically that the permits are up January 2019 with no plans to renew. It has also been said that without the cans the coast could go the way of Raton Pass. A lot of this talk is coming from UP's latest precision railroading.

I’ve heard that same story with the January date.

Supposedly the oil would be trucked instead, and nobody wants to pay for replacing the aging set of cans.

Would government review and permits be necessary to truck the oil?

Posted from iPhone

What permits are needed? Are they from the railroad, state, county, city, Feds?
The reason this train even exists is because they could not get the permits to build a pipeline in the first place.
And trucking that far, 300+ miles, is just not economically feasible for the quantity that needs to be moved.

Anybody care to calculate how much oil the train carries every few days?

The cars have been around a long time but have apparently been upgraded and maintained. The main feature is the fast unloading system, maybe they can replace the cars with more traditional tank cars with a slower load/unload rate...? Doesn't seem like a good idea though.

+ Here's the 'Cans' a few years ago on Tehachipi at Woodford.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/18 10:36 by TCnR.

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Great shot at Woodford with the "Tank Train" lettered tank cars!

78 cars @ 23000 gallons per car = 1,794,000 gallons per trip. Approx 897 truck loads @ 3000 gallons per truck.
That's a lot of trucks that are not on a busy highway going through some pretty big population centers.

Precision railroading is like matched sets of power; its just not a perfect world.  We've seen this tried before.  What is differen't besides more computers with better tracking?  Will it be enough?  I will watch with interest....

Have the rail cars reached their 40 life span??  Mandatory retirement or something of the like?  A waste of good iron if that is the case.

My former emplpyer practices "precision distribution" right down to selling to only those customers who meet all the required
criteria. In the last six years their sales growth has barely been over the inflation rate but the market loves them because they've
cut expenses and employees to the bone thus improving profitability, Meanwhile their two largest competitors have grown by
300%! The senior and technical sales people have left the company along with the extemely successful but "maverick" group
of regional management. So if anyone thinks that the rail oriented precision thing is new, it's not, different day, different coat.

Out

jkchubbes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been hearing alot of rumors that the coast
> oil cans are on their way out. Specifically that
> the permits are up January 2019 with no plans to
> renew. It has also been said that without the
> cans the coast could go the way of Raton Pass. A
> lot of this talk is coming from UP's latest
> precision railroading.

This doesn't make much sense, unless all the San Ardo oil production will be trucked to the Phillips 66 refinery north of Guadalupe.  That means P66 would be buying oil from other producers, likely at a premium price.  Trucking it anywhere else, long term, is cost prohibited.  

What permits are we talking about?  Renewal of Monterey County permits??

I suspect there is a big piece of info missing here...


Allen

78 car trains are history.  Usually between 70-50 cars.  Sounds like a done deal. New truck loading facility has been built in recent months.  Sphogger

bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jkchubbes Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've been hearing alot of rumors that the coast
> > oil cans are on their way out. Specifically
> that
> > the permits are up January 2019 with no plans
> to
> > renew. It has also been said that without the
> > cans the coast could go the way of Raton Pass.
> A
> > lot of this talk is coming from UP's latest
> > precision railroading.
>
> This doesn't make much sense, unless all the San
> Ardo oil production will be trucked to the
> Phillips 66 refinery north of Guadalupe.  That
> means P66 would be buying oil from other
> producers, likely at a premium price.  Trucking
> it anywhere else, long term, is cost
> prohibited.  
>
> What permits are we talking about?  Renewal of
> Monterey County permits??
>
> I suspect there is a big piece of info missing
> here...
>
>
> Allen

This may have something to do with the anti-fracking measure passed in Monterey County last year. 
C

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

CarolVoss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This may have something to do with the
> anti-fracking measure passed in Monterey County
> last year. 
> C

I doubt it.  Monterey County apparently had no problem issuing permits for a new truck load out... 


Allen

We might need that oil the way things are going with the Saudis.

On the other board doom and gloom . Coastline a ghost town. This is a bunch of BS UP. Maintenance of the cars can not be that bad. Having that many trucks on the road is not going to be a good thing. Who is the receiver in San Pedro? Don’t they have a say?

Posted from iPhone

CPRR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the other board doom and gloom . Coastline a
> ghost town. This is a bunch of BS UP. Maintenance
> of the cars can not be that bad. Having that many
> trucks on the road is not going to be a good
> thing. Who is the receiver in San Pedro? Don’t
> they have a say?
>
> Posted from iPhone

I think that the cars are leased (GATX?), which would mean that the UP doesn't spend money to repair them. Any maintenance is billed to the owner.

Yep, http://www.gatx.com/wps/wcm/connect/gatx/gatx_site/home/rail+north+america/products/equipment+types/tank/acid+and+specialty/tank+train/tanktrain
> -----
> > On the other board doom and gloom . Coastline a
> > ghost town. This is a bunch of BS UP.
> Maintenance
> > of the cars can not be that bad. Having that
> many
> > trucks on the road is not going to be a good
> > thing. Who is the receiver in San Pedro?
> Don’t
> > they have a say?
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
> I think that the cars are leased (GATX?), which
> would mean that the UP doesn't spend money to
> repair them. Any maintenance is billed to the
> owner.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 78 cars @ 23000 gallons per car = 1,794,000
> gallons per trip. Approx 897 truck loads @ 3000
> gallons per truck.
> That's a lot of trucks that are not on a busy
> highway going through some pretty big population
> centers.

3000 gallons per truck?  Don’t think so. My local convenience store gets deliveries from  trailers 8000 gallons and bigger. 

There's plenty of tank cars in storage. So, replacement cars shouldn't be an issue!
Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve heard that same story with the January
> date.
>
> Supposedly the oil would be trucked instead, and
> nobody wants to pay for replacing the aging set of
> cans.
>
> Would government review and permits be necessary
> to truck the oil?
>
> Posted from iPhone

portlander Wrote:

> I think that the cars are leased (GATX?), which
> would mean that the UP doesn't spend money to
> repair them. Any maintenance is billed to the
> owner.

Correct. GATX has personnel on the property at Wunpost for maintenance.