Western Railroad Discussion > New UP Z Train

UP recently started up a new priority intermodal service between SLC, UT and LA. The ZSCLCs started running a week ago and the business seems to be growing at a good clip. The trains are handling some of the business that the ISCLBs were hauling, including empty trailers being re positioned, but also some loaded trailers (UPS/FedEx) showing up as well. Don't know if the UPS business is coming out of Denver (ZDVSC connection) or originating at SLC, but the service seems to be getting off to a fast start. Trains are usually through the Barstow area on the webcam between 6 and 7 P.M and run TU-SA.

Been a long time since a regularly scheduled Z train was running west on the LA&SL, with the APLAZs probably being the last Z trains to take that routing west. And just in case somebody asks, the ISCLBs are still running as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/18 16:41 by SPSF.

ZSCLC originates Mo-Sa.  ISCLB originates Tu-Su.

Andrew

florida581 Wrote:
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> ZSCLC originates Mo-Sa.  ISCLB originates Tu-Su.

ZSCLC shows originating early Tuesday morning or did I miss something? No train on Monday as far as I know.

Is it the end destination that makes this newer train different from the older train?   Seems like they just could have added more of the older train or simply changed it's final destination, if was a different destination.

 

Fizzboy7 Wrote:
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> Is it the end destination that makes this newer
> train different from the older train?   Seems
> like they just could have added more of the older
> train or simply changed it's final destination, if
> was a different destination.

If you're asking about the new train vs the ISCLB, UP may be trying to get the UPS/FedEx stuff over the road quicker. The ISCLBs aren't breaking any speed records and are probably handling mostly empty marine/domestic containers now, so UP might be trying to speed things up a bit during the holiday shipping season. If the trains are still running after the first of the year, I will be very surprised.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/18 16:30 by SPSF.

Does the new train serve the Las Vegas IM terminal?

Greyhounds Wrote:
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> Does the new train serve the Las Vegas IM
> terminal?

Not that I know of. The ISCLBs might be doing some work there.  

Anyone have the schedule?

Bruce

Its probably just for the holidays since UP us doing a similar train out of Dallas TX ZMQHOX it'll probably disappear at the first of the year

Posted from Android

SPSF Wrote:
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> florida581 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ZSCLC originates Mo-Sa.  ISCLB originates
> Tu-Su.
>
> ZSCLC shows originating early Tuesday morning or
> did I miss something? No train on Monday as far as
> I know.

If it's taylored to UPS, then "Mondays" train will probably not depart until very early Tuesday morning, as UPS needs to sort the packages before the trailers/containers can be loaded and taken down to the intermodal facility.  Same thing happens in Portland and Seattle on the BNSF.

It has always seemed odd to me that UP has always run the ZLADV trains, but nothing going the other way that's expeditied.  The closest thing is the ZDVSC with the hot UPS for Salt Lake, but then what ever else is left over for LA I guess went on the land barge ISCLB.  I know there's lots of repo stuff of empty international and domestic containers, but one would think there would be some "hot" traffic from Denver and Salt Lake going to Southern California???

StStephen Wrote:
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> Anyone have the schedule?

I think it's OD around 0200 at the SLC IM yard, so by Barstow around 1800, but that's all I have on it. I think it was even earlier on the Barstow webcam yesterday as I checked at 6 P.M. at it had already passed. No idea what time it arrives at the LC terminal.

spwolfmtn Wrote:
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> It has always seemed odd to me that UP has always
> run the ZLADV trains, but nothing going the other
> way that's expeditied.  

UP runs an IDVLBX from time to time but no idea if that train handles traffic the ISCLB would haul or something else. Did notice some trailers on an ISCLB the other day so it looks like the tofc is showing up on both trains.

spwolfmtn Wrote:
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> It has always seemed odd to me that UP has always
> run the ZLADV trains, but nothing going the other
> way that's expeditied.  The closest thing is the
> ZDVSC with the hot UPS for Salt Lake, but then
> what ever else is left over for LA I guess went on
> the land barge ISCLB.  I know there's lots of
> repo stuff of empty international and domestic
> containers, but one would think there would be
> some "hot" traffic from Denver and Salt Lake going
> to Southern California???

Denver is a really poor outbound freight market.  (I know, there's that beer)  But there is a lot more freight going in to Denver than coming out.  So the truckers aggressively price outbound just to get some revenue, any revenue.  Denver to LA is consistently listed as THE low rated dry van lane in the western US.  For the week ended November 10, 2018 the average dry van truck rate from Denver to LA was only $1.16/mile.  The national average dry van truck rate was $2.09/mile.  (My source is DAT)  So if you're going to get a load out of Denver, you're going to get a low paying load.  Of course, the rates in to Denver are higher to even things out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/18 02:15 by Greyhounds.

Thanks for the info about the new train. I've seen it twice now, and thought it was a detouring train.

Greyhounds Wrote:

> Denver is a really poor outbound freight market. 
> (I know, there's that beer)  But there is a lot
> more freight going in to Denver than coming out. 
> So the truckers aggressively price outbound just
> to get some revenue, any revenue.  Denver to LA
> is consistently listed as THE low rated dry van
> lane in the western US.  For the week ended
> November 10, 2018 the average dry van truck rate
> from Denver to LA was only $1.16/mile.  The
> national average dry van truck rate was
> $2.09/mile.  (My source is DAT)  So if you're
> going to get a load out of Denver, you're going to
> get a low paying load.  Of course, the rates in
> to Denver are higher to even things out.

Lanes like this (which exist in many markets) are the reason railroads should not try doing these (and other) routes at the retail level (that is, marketing to shippers/users).  That puts UP in the role of carrying empties.  If this were purely a wholesale lane (that is, marketing to truckers/UPS/FedEx only) the economics change.  And for truckers, using intermodal for OTR in a money-losing lane makes the most sense.  The cost of OTR changes very little for empty vs. load, so in those lanes the best strategy (at least from a profitability standpoint) seems to be use intermodal.  Lower your costs as much as you can and, if the service is good on intermodal, use that.  It won't change the mix of inbound loads to outbound empties, but it does change the mix of costs.  Then the issue is, can UP charge the same for empties for truckers as for loads?

Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/18 10:23 by StStephen.

seems BN's den chi train is lot less hotter than it's counter part, chiefly a repostioning move

StStephen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greyhounds Wrote:
>
> > Denver is a really poor outbound freight
> market. 
> > (I know, there's that beer)  But there is a
> lot
> > more freight going in to Denver than coming
> out. 
> > So the truckers aggressively price outbound
> just
> > to get some revenue, any revenue.  Denver to
> LA
> > is consistently listed as THE low rated dry van
> > lane in the western US.  For the week ended
> > November 10, 2018 the average dry van truck
> rate
> > from Denver to LA was only $1.16/mile.  The
> > national average dry van truck rate was
> > $2.09/mile.  (My source is DAT)  So if you're
> > going to get a load out of Denver, you're going
> to
> > get a low paying load.  Of course, the rates
> in
> > to Denver are higher to even things out.
>
> Lanes like this (which exist in many markets) are
> the reason railroads should not try doing these
> (and other) routes at the retail level (that is,
> marketing to shippers/users).  That puts UP in
> the role of carrying empties.  If this were
> purely a wholesale lane (that is, marketing to
> truckers/UPS/FedEx only) the economics change. 
> And for truckers, using intermodal for OTR in a
> money-losing lane makes the most sense.  The cost
> of OTR changes very little for empty vs. load, so
> in those lanes the best strategy (at least from a
> profitability standpoint) seems to be use
> intermodal.  Lower your costs as much as you can
> and, if the service is good on intermodal, use
> that.  It won't change the mix of inbound loads
> to outbound empties, but it does change the mix of
> costs.  Then the issue is, can UP charge the same
> for empties for truckers as for loads?
>
> Bruce

This definitely sounds about right from how I understand it.  However, there are a lot of these kinds of markets in the US (Pheonix, south Florida, etc are other ones that comes to mind), so if railroads want expanded business, then they have to serve them .  My bets are, the railroads contract with the major carriers and LTL providers to provide hot inbound service, and then the railroads provide for outbound transportation to repo (ie reposition) the empty equipment.  The railroads probably also charge a highly discounted rate for this, so these moves are made at the railroads' convienence (or it's, like Bruce said, part of a higher inbound rate or just a part of the contract).

However, there are still hot outbound moves out of these large metro areas (UPS, LTL, etc), so I'd imagine there would still be some reason to offer an expedited train, even if it is filled out with repo stuff.  I was thinking that this could also make it even more unpleasant for the truckers if the railroads did this, as that would make it more competitive to get the few outbound "loads" and thus more reason for a trucker to avoid that location, even for the inbound business.

I know locally where I am at, there's a huge imbalance of inbound to outbound business.  For example, UPS will most days have anywhere from 10-20 (at least) UPS trailers/containers coming in loaded with hot packages, but only maybe 3-5 outbound loads of hot packages.  So UPS now uses (I think they purchased it) a logistics company that finds outbound shipments for UPS's large domestic containers to reload with.  So now, instead of those containers going back repo (empty), many of them are loaded with some sort of freight and put back on a train.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/18 12:53 by spwolfmtn.