Western Railroad Discussion > UP: Closing Hinkle Yard?

I saw something on a railfan page and I want to confirm it. Is UP really closing the Hinkle facility?

Thanks,
Jim Burrill

Yard or mechanical facilities? I rather doubt they'd close the yard but they are cutting mechanical people like crazy - evidently feel you don't have to maintain locomotives. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/19 08:26 by Railbaron.

Railbaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yard or mechanical facilities? I rather doubt
> they'd close the yard but they are cutting
> mechanical people like crazy - evidently feel you
> don't have to maintain locomotives. 

Frisc....er...mmmmm BN did that. Bad order power went to Springfield from...anywhere. They wouldn't allow us to run a train if we didn't have full tonnage to within a hundred or so, then they'd load up the train with dead power for Springfield, making reductions to the revenue traffic accordingly.

Let's say, it didn't work out well.
  (But it took a couple of years for them to admit it.)

TAW

Railbaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yard or mechanical facilities? I rather doubt
> they'd close the yard but they are cutting
> mechanical people like crazy - evidently feel you
> don't have to maintain locomotives. 

The same locomotive shop that they just built a bit over 10 years ago?!?!  And if they close the hump, just where is UP going to switch cars at?!?!  Albina is already plugged all the time and that's about the only major yard left in the PNW for the UP.  There's not much of any yards for UP in the Seattle/Tacoma areas, Brooklyn (former SP in Portland) is pretty much all intermodal, and the former SP hump yard at Eugene OR is a fraction of it's former self (the exact same thing can be said about the former hump yard at Pocatello ID).  Maybe UP plans to run off that much business!?!?  That will be great news for the BNSF, assuming they could handle it.

At this point, me personally, hopes that UP goes off the deep end and just starts shutting everything down, then nose dives into a melt down that makes the late 90's look good.  It seems like the only thing that works any more is for someone to have their as... kicked badly; then maybe UP would pull their heads out and start acting rationally again (not sure who would do that as it seems the entire board of directors and upper management needs to go!).  Unfortunately, by then, I'm sure the government will have a whole bunch of new regulations on their way for the railroads.  Who knows, maybe those bad regulations might just be the lessor of the two evils.

TAW Wrote:
.........
> Let's say, it didn't work out well.
>   (But it took a couple of years for them to
> admit it.)
>They probably never admitted it.  Brought in "new" managers who rehashed the old(er) ideas and called it "NEW"!!
zr190

OK, honest question:  if UP goes into meltdown (again) from all this PSR stuff, and their stock drops, is there any investor out there wealthy enough, waiting in the wings, to buy them totally outright, like Warren Biffett did with BNSF?  Imagine UP then being privately held, no longer subject to Wall Street whims.  I seriously wonder if that's going to happen at some point.

UP hasn’t filed a WARN layoff notice with the state which I believe they would have to do in the event of closing the entire facility.
https://www.oregon.gov/highered/institutions-programs/workforce/Pages/warn.aspx



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/19 11:28 by asterisk.

I suspect they won't actually close the shop but rather cut massive numbers of people off and leave a skeleton crew behind for what's left. They did, or are in the process of doing this at Pine Bluff, and when the dust settles very few people will be left but technically the shop will be open. Perhaps UP will pull this move at Hinkle to avoid the WARN requirements; it wouldn't surprise me.

Story about Pine Bluff dated February 7th.

https://www.pbcommercial.com/news/20190207/union-pacific-officials-say-pb-shop-closing




 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/19 11:42 by Railbaron.

the 1/16/2019 East Oregonian newspaper artricle states 140 mechanical positions are being eliminated across the UP system and Hinkle is affected; no specific numbers about Hinkle other than the repair facility employs 235 people...   Arlen

they are closing mechanical in a lot of places

I'm going to take some heat for this, but these kinds of decisions, made by Glass palace executives who have no idea how to run a railroad caused the UP service crisis in 1996. Now they have a fresh batch of Harvard educated MBA's who will repeat the same mistakes made previously because they have no practical knowledge of what it takes to run a railroad. CSX is another example of this kind of management.

To make matters worse these "decisions" are being driven more by greed by Wall Street investors who could care less about corporate health; they want their short term profits. UP is/was already very profitable but greed has set in and they want even more, they want to bleed the company dry, take their profits, then move on. These cuts are gauranteed to cripple the company for years to come. The term, "To big to fail", sound familiar?
 

And gee, that scatter brained non-PSR G&W bunch promotes in place, hires locally, and what they're only doing
120-130 thousand cars per month. Hey UP, I remember years ago, I was flying high, number one in the company
in sales, two huge customers. Until, the Germans bought one and built with import equipment and the other moved
manufacturing to Mexico. But then, life with hard knocks is over there and daddy's funded MBA is way over there.

Out

Maybe things are even worse. I've heard Pine Bluff and Davidson Yard will also be shut down. Melt down, anyone?

Who needs a yard with PSR, just couple everything together and let it roam the system until the industry is is found for that 1 car spot.

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And gee, that scatter brained non-PSR G&W bunch
> promotes in place, hires locally, and what they're
> only doing
> 120-130 thousand cars per month. Hey UP, I
> remember years ago, I was flying high, number one
> in the company
> in sales, two huge customers. Until, the Germans
> bought one and built with import equipment and the
> other moved
> manufacturing to Mexico. But then, life with hard
> knocks is over there and daddy's funded MBA is way
> over there.
>
> Out

Salena Zito's book: The Great Revolt looks at that precise situation.  She examines areas where the manufacturing base hollowed out as production was relocated to Mexico, Alabama,etc and the supply chain followed it.  These affected communities sought change by voting for Obama in 2008 and 2012, and Trump in 2016.  The game is rigged, and not in their favor.

Railbaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect they won't actually close the shop but
> rather cut massive numbers of people off and leave
> a skeleton crew behind for what's left. They did,
> or are in the process of doing this at Pine Bluff,
> and when the dust settles very few people will be
> left but technically the shop will be open.
> Perhaps UP will pull this move at Hinkle to avoid
> the WARN requirements; it wouldn't surprise me.

You're right, railroads easily get around this.  Just keep a skeleton crew on duty so its "officially" not closed, then tell all the rest of the employees to "exercise your seniority".  Then it's up to the employees to find a place to work and move there.

Granted, most of this closing stuff is, so far, is speculation and rumor, and quite frankly, doesn't seem possible.  If these things do come to past, I wonder what UP is seeing that no one else is?  Is it all a bunch of Wall Street, Upper management, and Board of Directors greed, of do they see a collapse in railroad traffic (that does seem like what they are preparing for - the end of the railroad world!).  If it's the former (ie greed), and it likely is as I don't see any armageddon coming this way for the railroads (except for themselves), how can anyone in their rational minds think that this will benefit the company long term?!?!

In my opinion, there is definitely many troubling signs in this country right now.  History is full of bad management that have ruined companies, but there seems to be few who care any more.  It's all about short term gains so the companys' stocks get a pop, the gamblers on Wall Street make their riches and head for the doors, and everyone else (primarily the non-wealthy, working people) end up paying the price.  In business school, I was always taught that heavy debt, especially used to buy back one's own stock and pay dividends, is a very bad sign for a company.  I guess they all think it's different now; hell, no one seems to even care about the huge debt this country is (has) racked up!  I was hoping that those crypto currencies would take off and reduce the value of the American Dollar as the currency of the world; then where would this country be without the world supporting our huge debt load?  Eventually, all of this is going to get very, very ugly....

I wonder if history will note this period of time as the "Roaring 20's" before the great crash and another Great "D"epression???

Txhighballer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe things are even worse. I've heard Pine Bluff
> and Davidson Yard will also be shut down. Melt
> down, anyone?

The grapeview is running rampent but after filtering out some of the BS it sounds like Centennial Yard in Ft Worth will go to flat switching and Pine Bluff may as well. The new Brazos Yard will no doubt effect Centennial Yard. CY is now considered to be in a poor location because its oriented east/west when the predominant carload flow is north/south.

Not sure what is going on at Pine Bluff yet. At this time there are no plans to make any changes to yard operations at North Little Rock or any of the yards in the Houston/Beaumont area's unless Vena gets a wild hair up his butt.

I do not foresee a meltdown unless Vena convinces Uncle Fritz to make significant changes in Houston terminal operations. Uncle Fritz should just say no...


Allen




Posted from Android



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/19 15:14 by bradleymckay.

Pine Bluff hump was shut down. The thought being that two hump yards within 50 miles is a non starter for new management. I don't know what the other hump is, just relaying what I'm told. The hump at Hinkle is or will be shut down. One of the two yardmaster positions was removed last month in addition to mechanical and car forces. I have heard no concrete evidence of the Roseville hump being shut down, but of course there are rumors. 26 more mechanical employees were laid off two nights ago.

Nothing is sacred and anything here today can be gone tomorrow.

As far as the meltdown, we'd have to assume that if there is one, it'll be short and sweet like all of the other class 1's introductions into PSR.

spwolfmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Railbaron Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yard or mechanical facilities? I rather doubt
> > they'd close the yard but they are cutting
> > mechanical people like crazy - evidently feel
> you
> > don't have to maintain locomotives. 
>
> The same locomotive shop that they just built a
> bit over 10 years ago?!?!  And if they close the
> hump, just where is UP going to switch cars
> at?!?!  Albina is already plugged all the time
> and that's about the only major yard left in the
> PNW for the UP.  There's not much of any yards
> for UP in the Seattle/Tacoma areas, Brooklyn
> (former SP in Portland) is pretty much all
> intermodal, and the former SP hump yard at Eugene
> OR is a fraction of it's former self (the exact
> same thing can be said about the former hump yard
> at Pocatello ID).  Maybe UP plans to run off that
> much business!?!?  That will be great news for
> the BNSF, assuming they could handle it.
>
> At this point, me personally, hopes that UP goes
> off the deep end and just starts shutting
> everything down, then nose dives into a melt down
> that makes the late 90's look good.  It seems
> like the only thing that works any more is for
> someone to have their as... kicked badly; then
> maybe UP would pull their heads out and start
> acting rationally again (not sure who would do
> that as it seems the entire board of directors and
> upper management needs to go!).  Unfortunately,
> by then, I'm sure the government will have a whole
> bunch of new regulations on their way for the
> railroads.  Who knows, maybe those bad
> regulations might just be the lessor of the two
> evils.

Hoping UP goes into a meltdown is really irrational thinking. Wishing this is not only bad for the UP it's bad for the entire railroad industry. You're already going off the deep end and it's only February. We won't know how this is going to all play out for several more months, at the minimum. I would suggest keeping a close eye on weekly carload and intermodal counts if you're really interested in seeing UP go up in flames. Just remember: be careful what you wish for...

Allen

Posted from Android