Western Railroad Discussion > Crossing Accident Question

Assuming that operating crews are not permitted to have cell phones on them in the event of a grade crossing accident is the crew totally dependent on having the dispatcher (or a bystander) call 911? Or is the crew allowed to get their own cell phone out of their grip and place the call without reprisal?

Posted from iPhone

Why would you want to make your own call? You want all your conversations to be recorded on the dispatchers radio circuits. The railroad wants it that way also.

Good point. I just wasn’t sure if there was a time lag going through the dispatcher. Guess it’s best just to follow standard procedures in such a situation

Posted from iPhone

The letter of the law says you can use a personal electronic device in an emergency situation.  However, I totally agree with FBE on this one, why would you?  Plus, god knows what loophole the railroad may try to get around that exception "it wasn't an emegency", "it was an emergency but you didn't need to report it as it was already reported", "you reported it but then you checked a text from your wife that wasn't an emergency".  My suggestion is while on duty for all intents and purposes you don't have a cell phone, it simply doesn't exist.

There is always some delay getting a dispatcher response when they are busy but if you say Emergency, emergency, emergency and your identification the dispatcher will put you right to the top of his attention.

A truly professional dispatcher with experience will ask 2 questions right off.

1. Is anyone hurt?
2. Is there anything I can do to help you?

You don't hear that like you used to since some trainmaster is likely standing right over his/her shoulder trying to micro manage an event they have not even seen yet.





johnambrose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good point. I just wasn’t sure if there was a
> time lag going through the dispatcher. Guess
> it’s best just to follow standard procedures in
> such a situation
>
> Posted from iPhone

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't hear that like you used to since some
> trainmaster is likely standing right over his/her
> shoulder trying to micro manage an event they have
> not even seen yet.

Not sure what trainmaster works in the dispatching office, but every chief dispatcher I've ever known was extremely professional in emergency situations. 

There has been times I or others have dialed up the dispatch in a emergency (911 tone up) and they have not gotten back to us quickly. You can bet in that situation I will be on my phone calling 911. Also if there was a situation where the people were criticaly injured and I thought it would be faster either me or the conductor would be talking to 911 ourself vs trying to relay between third parties.

I'm not a railroader, but I agree with Pacific5th.  The crew can get right to 911 where as the dispatcher has to look it up.  Call 911 and call the dispatcher right afterwords.  Then help  somebody if they are  in a burning car or needs cpr.  Anoher thing is that the crew can use their phones or camera when the train is stopped.  I once had an engineer call me and wish me Mery Christmas while he was stalled on a hill, waiting for a push.  I really enjoyed that and saw nothing wrong with it.  They should also be able to call their wives when stopped.

Randy Lundgren
Elgin, TX 

So there it is on Train Orders, one question and answers all over the board. It is your job and possibly other peoples' lives involved.

Better you than me 5th, I’m not going to use my personal device (which the company restricts me from using in most situations) for someone who chose to get hit by my train. Also am not going to risk my life for that person.

Posted from iPhone

I agree there is only one answer and that is to use the radio to call and only use a cell phone if the radio does not work. Bystanders can over blow the accident or not tell a dispatcher what they need to know.  Also they can overload the cops dispatch easily where a call from the RR dispatch will be able to tell them better answers to there questions.  Know personaly how to deal with cops dispatch and what they expect as delt with them years back.

BAB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree there is only one answer and that is to
> use the radio to call and only use a cell phone if
> the radio does not work. Bystanders can over blow
> the accident or not tell a dispatcher what they
> need to know.  Also they can overload the cops
> dispatch easily where a call from the RR dispatch
> will be able to tell them better answers to there
> questions.  Know personaly how to deal with cops
> dispatch and what they expect as delt with them
> years back.

To emphasize, a good Engineer friend, hit an abandoned/stuck automobile on the main line track. He called the Dispatcher and explained what happened. Shortly, a local police officer showed up, and proceeded to question my buddy plus asked to see his license. He quickly handed the officer his company FRA Engineer's ticket. The officer was baffled, and then asked for his State Drivers License, upon which my buddy refused under the grounds that: 1) he isn't "driving" his automobile/pick-up truck, 2) he is not about to have an "accident" reported to either the State Motor Vehicle Dept. nor his insurance company. The Police Officer got very insistent, upon which my buddy climbed back up into the locomotive cab and radioed the Dispatcher again, explaining the "problem", and requested that the company Special Agent assist in explaining reality to the local Police Officer. Upon the arrival of the Special Agent, the "situation" was quickly cleared up, and a tow truck pulled the damaged automobile off the tracks.

Also, give the officer the railroad's address and the claims agent or special agent's phone number. They want to answer the questions first. You don't want family, friends or lawyers calling you at all hours of the day or night.

Nor do you want any one involved with the hit party to know your phone number or your address. People who are dumb enough to get hit by a train usually don't have smart relatives or friends.

Sam

Many State Vehicle Codes have been amended to included sections that prohibit a peace officer from demanding a driver's license as proof of identification from railway operating employees and issuing citations to them in connection to accidents on RR ROW
The Calif VC Section is 12953.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/19 09:48 by Chico43.

jointauthority Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Better you than me 5th, I’m not going to use my
> personal device (which the company restricts me
> from using in most situations) for someone who
> chose to get hit by my train. Also am not going to
> risk my life for that person.
>
> Posted from iPhone

such a caring and compassionate person.

Posted from Android

Another reason to use the radio and not your cell phone. You may not have any cell coverage.
They locate those towers where the people are at. They're not along the railroad, they're along the highways.

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There has been times I or others have dialed up
> the dispatch in a emergency (911 tone up) and they
> have not gotten back to us quickly.

That is a major symptom of the dysfunction that apparently abounds. The old days of smoking at the table were not really good, especially for those who didn't smoke, but the prohibition brought on the smoke break concept, with chairs being empty for long periods of time. In the Seattle BN office, by the late 80s, a lot of folks spent a lot of time out of the chair, hanging out at another position, BSing the time away. That worked when we had loudspeakers on a dispatcher phone and a radio on monitor speaker. It doesn't work at all with headsets, the cost of dispatchers working in an arena instead of an office.

One of the important functions of a qualified train dispatcher in an emergency is to convert railroad into civilian. Where is MP 83.5 in the outside world? Does the public know a road by a different name than rails do (100 year old names stick for rails, even if the public has changed the name)? How does emergency response get to it? Is the train blocking an access route? Does response need to come from the north side, south side, etc.?

However, qualified is part of the problem.

TAW

I was authorized to visit the UP's Harriman Dispatch Center back around 2000 in my capacity as a UTU Local Chairman.  At that time, each dispatch station had a rotating red light that automatically went off when someone keyed the emergency signal on his territory.  If that particular DS was taking a bathroom break or whatever,  any dispatcher could step over there and deal with the situation.  
Don't know what system they're using there now, but I'd be curious to know.

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO

All rail employees must learn that HotWater is right on the tee.  The railroad employees are under the Federal laws and not local jurisdiction. I can tell of a situuation where after an incident the engineer and the conductor were standing at the base of the steps to the locomotive cab and the local cop was requesting a driver lisence and not getting one from either crew, and then he wanted to climb up to the cab and was blocked and refused.  The crew told him that the Management had been infromed are were en route.  The local cop got the train number, date, and time and no crew names. He was so pissed that the local cop reached around for his hand cuffs, and the engineer reached into his chest pocket and handed his tape recorder (totally legal at time)  to the conductor and said "hold this evidence".  The local cop immediately turned around and left the scene.  Only the Federal Marshall and the FRA officer are government official in jurisdiction beyond the company management. 

HotWater said:
"He quickly handed the officer his company FRA Engineer's ticket. The officer was baffled, and then asked for his State Drivers License, upon which my buddy refused under the grounds that: 1) he isn't "driving" his automobile/pick-up truck, 2) he is not about to have an "accident" reported to either the State Motor Vehicle Dept. nor his insurance company. The Police Officer got very insistent, upon which my buddy climbed back up into the locomotive cab and radioed the Dispatcher again, explaining the "problem", and requested that the company Special Agent assist in explaining reality to the local Police Officer."

A railroad employee on duty must never offer his Driver Lisence ID number to anyone, and they are not required explain their name as it is the company job to do that if legal.  You have never heard the name of the CSX employee who failed to line the switch in SC where Amtrak had its crew killed with the head on.  And we have never heard that CSX's employee drug status of his blood at that time he got confused to normal position of the switch. He would be another Rich Gates, or Mr.Harting of Las Macganic, QE.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/19 13:06 by PlyWoody.