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Western Railroad Discussion > Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?


Date: 05/15/19 00:58
Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: JPB

Don't often hear of a new freight RR being proposed in the US these days. This is the first I've heard of the Unitah Basin Railway, which could be 50-100 miles in length depending upon what route is selected. 

Once built, UB Rlwy would be operated by Rio Grande Pacific regional freight RR holding company: https://rgpc.com/railroads/

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/short_lines_regionals/news/Private-partner-to-finance-build-Uinta-Basin-Railway--57571

http://uintabasinrailway.com/

Any idea if this will come to pass?




Date: 05/15/19 05:22
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: howeld

Topic comes and goes. Not holding my breath.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,4505152,4507427#msg-4507427

Posted from iPhone



Date: 05/15/19 06:16
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: MEKoch

And now all the usual opposition groups will appear with their lawyers.   Plus all the NIMBYs.   



Date: 05/15/19 06:37
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: exhaustED

No, it's not for real - it's a misinformation tactic by the Russians, intended to confuse and disorientate. Also, don't forget, everything you see is an illusion created by an artificial software construct, known as the dominamatrix. 



Date: 05/15/19 06:37
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: 2ebright

Howeld is exactly right; this topic does come and go. This is about the 4th attempt for groups in the Uintah Basin to get a railroad built into this area. Trouble is, everyone sees the need, but nobody wants to pay for it. This area is a big producer of oil and natural gas and much smaller amounts of Gilsonite and Phosphate rock. That’s it! No agriculture to speak of, no manufacturing, just the above mentioned products. There would be some inbound freight like oil field pipe, cement and frac sand.
 
I have lived in this area for well over forty years in the town of Roosevelt. It’s right in the middle of the map. I have nearly 50 years working in oil and gas drilling and production, most of it right here in Utah. If there was any way to build a railroad of this magnitude and make a profit operating it, you would think that one of the railroads such as the Union Pacific would build it. But, they want no part of paying the huge bill to build this route. Their attitude is “you get your oil to our railroad and we will be happy to haul it wherever you want”. So, nearly all of the roughly 100,000 barrels per day of oil production must be trucked about 140 miles through the mountains on mostly 2 lane US 191 and US 40 to refineries in the Salt Lake Valley. That highway is literally a conveyor belt of large crude oil tankers going west and empties coming back east for another load. Oh, and this oil is high in wax content and must be heated to over 110 degrees and kept hot or it solidifies into solid wax. It is this big transportation problem with its associated danger, inconvenience to the traveling public and huge wear and tear on our highways that makes a railroad so attractive. Figuring out how to pay for it is the big problem.  And then there will be the expected outrage from the environmental groups to deal with.  I do not expect any solution in my lifetime, but I hope I am wrong.
 
Dick Ebright
Roosevelt, Utah
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/19 15:51 by 2ebright.



Date: 05/15/19 07:08
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: texchief1

Excellent comment, Dick!  What would be the destination of a new railroad on that map provided in eearlier post?

Thanks for posting.

Randy Lundgren
Elgin, TX



Date: 05/15/19 07:36
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: 2ebright

It looks like the destination is in a very rural area southwest of the town of Roosevelt on the south side of the Duchesne River on Ute Indian Tribe land.

Dick Ebright
Roosevelt, Utah



Date: 05/15/19 07:37
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: atsf121

I like Dick’s comments, it echos a lot of what I have read about the various proposals to build a railroad into the Uintah Basin. It’s not the Powder River Basin of 30-40 years ago with mountains of coal that were in high demand. The returns just aren’t there for Uintah and with the oil industry being so volatile, it makes it that much harder to scrounge up funds.

Nathan

Posted from iPhone



Date: 05/15/19 08:47
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: highgreengraphics

And there is the lesson of the PRB - Coal is volatile, too. Huge investment in the PRB, and now it is overbuilt, and coal operators either on a shoestring or going into bankruptcy. One of their quadruple-track mains is being used for unused coal car storage. I wonder if the money invested in the PRB infrastructure ever paid for itself? My guess is no. === === = === JLH



Date: 05/15/19 09:58
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: callum_out

The only positive situation would be if it would bring additional business to the basin in some form of manufacturing,
but it all goes back to who is going to pay for the line. Look at how progress has halted around Salina and South when
the Rio Grande line was abandoned. The line would be a positive if someone could come up with the funds.

Out



Date: 05/15/19 15:29
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: bradleymckay

highgreengraphics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And there is the lesson of the PRB - Coal is
> volatile, too. Huge investment in the PRB, and now
> it is overbuilt, and coal operators either on a
> shoestring or going into bankruptcy. One of their
> quadruple-track mains is being used for unused
> coal car storage. I wonder if the money invested
> in the PRB infrastructure ever paid for itself? My
> guess is no. === === = === JLH

In general the PRB mines doing the best provide coal with the highest BTU content with very low ash. Otherwise companies with mines providing the "not quite as good" coal have to lowball the price to sell it, squeezing returns.

Allen

Posted from Android



Date: 05/15/19 15:35
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: callum_out

To emphacize how bad the fuel coal business is, the Six Counties line West out of Salina to the UP near Martin
has been planned, approved, enviro concerns addressed, everything but built. The line would have been the
SoFuels (Southern Fuels) coal conduit to the UP.  Existing mine near Salina, in operation, easily expanded but
no demand.

Out



Date: 05/15/19 15:39
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: Lackawanna484

If the CNW connection to the Powder River basin wasn't created, BN would likely have strangled the business with high charges.

Nothing personal, that's how railroads price their service without competition.

My guess is the switch to natural gas would have been accelerated.

Posted from Android



Date: 05/16/19 06:19
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: highgreengraphics

It was no secret when I worked at BN that the PRB income was supporting the rest of the BN system. We often mused at how amazingly rich the old CB&Q would have been if the BN merger had not happened! === === = === JLH



Date: 05/16/19 09:54
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: trkinsptr

The old Burlington line over Crawford hlll was a 2-4 train a day turkey trail!



Date: 05/21/19 09:38
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: espee1998

Panel shifts gears on best rail route to move oil from eastern Utah, says line now can be built for billions less

Yet after much planning and outreach geared toward a Colorado connection, the Seven County Infrastructure Coalition, the group leading the latest charge to rail the basin, has now selected Indian Canyon as the preferred route, insisting this 80-mile alignment could be built for $1.2 billion, dramatically less than previously estimated, thanks to a few adjustments.



Date: 05/24/19 08:22
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: highgreengraphics

Driving Highway 191, it almost LOOKS like a railroad should be there, or was in the past... === === = === JLH



Date: 05/24/19 08:44
Re: Uinta Basin Railway - is this for real?
Author: dan

imagine the CZ detouring



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