Western Railroad Discussion > UP Getting On/Off Moving Equipment

In the near future the UP is actually rolling back their rules and is going to start allowing transportation employees to get on and off moving equipment again. This was a part of railroading since the beginning of railroads and then about 20 years ago the UP made it against the rules on their property. Recently they have rolled back the rule in very selected locations, but shortly it is going to be opened up system wide. I can honestly say I never expected them to do this. It will be limited to movements at no more than 4 mph, and some training will have to be completed prior to employees being okayed for it.

I always wondered as to the reason it was discontinued.(Other than the Lawyers) And the speed of no more than 4mph was what I was taught at my class back in 1998, thought that was the rule as written. If taught properly, it helps in getting things done.  Just my opinion.  Ben

Heard this rumor several months ago. Glad to hear it's finally happening. Man, UP is going to have to train an awful lot of people who have never done this.

That leaves BNSF and Amtrak as the only two that still don't allow it. I hope BNSF changes their mind on this. Somehow I doubt it though.

In working and talking  with some old head conductors and rear brakeman,  getting on and off those waycars,  sometimes slow  and sometimes fast depending on the hogger,  they felt the best fit for their knees and legs was  not getting on and off moving equipment.  The impact forces  can be high if speeds  to fast.  This was before any speed restrictions were mentioned or tried..  Just passing along.

PWM

Next to be allowed will be dropping and kicking cars like we do on the shortlines to get things done!

Dick Samuels

Now if they can ease up on the kicking cars rule.

Posted from Android

Since I am retired I have no dog in this fight but I have long felt getting off moving equipment at a safe speed is much safer than getting off standing equipment. Why? Because in theory the person about to get off moving equipment will be more focused on where his feet will go than somebody stepping off standing equipment, who really has little say in where his feet will go. One problem that I see is who is around to teach the fine art of getting on or off moving equipment; there are few people left who have actually done it. In fact I'd be more concerned with the "getting on" as missing a stirrup could really mess up your day.

It is nice they cap the speed at 4 mph but realistically you'll see people doing it well above that. I guarantee back in my days on the ground I was bailing off substantially higher than 4 mph. In my case I have no ill effects of this activity, mainly because I went into engine service early on. Unfortunately a lot of old-head trainmen have issues even walking later in life due to joint issues from the pounding they got bailing off equipment moving too fast. 

The-late-EMD Wrote:
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> Now if they can ease up on the kicking cars rule.
>
> Posted from Android

I thought this was on a yard by yard basis on UP?

Maybe some bean counter has determined the amount of fuel saved by letting employees get on and off moving equipment as compared to having to stop and start. No doubt if a injury claim is filed it will be countered with "you got on or off above 4 mph".
I agree with other posters on this thread, there will be a lot of employees to train in the proper way of getting on or off moving equipment.
Doug

hoggerdoug Wrote:
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> Maybe some bean counter has determined the amount
> of fuel saved by letting employees get on and off
> moving equipment as compared to having to stop and
> start.

Pretty sure the Class 1 comeback of GOOME (getting on and off moving equipment) started under EHH's Canadian National for this very reason. Fuel and brake shoe costs coupled with productivity.

Working the Xtra board on the Milwaukee in 73 I got a call for division street, goose island. Conductor told me, no lunch and we don't slow down much like bensenville we get on and off. We did a couple drops, head man I was nervous I didn't miss the pin, on the way home after 5 hours.

Bob

Posted from Android

My road forman told me about this a couple days ago and said it has everything to do with PSR and productivity. "Safety first!" (unless it will costs more). As for training new guys, I watch old heads do it and almost all of them get off with the wrong foot anyway.

BTW when I hired out, they made our class get on and off at 15 mph, just to see if we could. 'Bout rips your arms from the sockets!

Well I hope BeanSF will one day follow UP. Then again, BeanSF is urging employees not to ride any shoving moves so they don't have to deal with injuries and will be absolved. 

Never worked in the industy when the process was allowed, hiring on the ballast in '98. Not in favor of any rule change in this.Even if it does come about, not many are going to do it. Many retired employees lived out post-work yrs w/knee, ankle and hip conditions that in some cases required surgery. I am not tearing up my body for the benefit of saving a few minutes out of the work day for the benefit of the rr that in my opinion can go pound sand on the issue.

Sfbrkmn - wouldn’t argue with your reticence but walking on ballast and inclined roadbed is no fun either.  Not sure I would agree about “many” old heads with orthopedic problems.  If you aren’t comfortable don’t do something you feel is unsafe.

You might have a change of heart when you are tantalizingly close to tying up but still have a 20 car set out to make on a 100 car train.  Something we old guys used to do in 10-15” turned into an hour long ordeal when we had to stop and set the brakes for every move.  Just saying...  it’s nice to have the option.

sphogger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/19 22:03 by sphogger.

They started this on the bigger eastern class one a few years ago. It's helped us out tremendously! I always disliked stopping a heavy train to let someone off!

Posted from Android

3-point stance and use that trailing foot! === === = === JLH

There is no "near future" about it.  UP is already doing it in some areas.  Here in the new PSR created "Rocky Mountain Service Unit" from Vegas to Silver Bow and Denver to Nampa, and Grand Junction to Elko......we are doing it.  Of course there are a couple young bucks out there doing it for the wrong reason......like running for a switch, jumping on a car to ride one car length to the next switch and getting off.......that is how people get hurt.  But those are yard, remote jobs.  Those remote control operators aren't known for their intelligence

Now with the new PSR, I'm cut back to the ground for the first summer in 3 years, so I have been using it whenever I can.  On the road though, we use moving equipment to save our knees, cutting our walking distances in half or more.  As long as you do it right there is nothing dangerous about it.  

Here is a recent example.  Going east from Pocatello to Green River, WY, we have a yard pickup at Montpelier, ID.  As we go by the pickup on the main I check our list.  When we get towards the east end of the track, there are two switches that will be against us for our move.  At a slow speed of 3 mph or so I get off, line both switches and get back on the second unit.  We continue forward about 20 cars to the derail and I get off, line it and climb back on the third unit.  About 10 cars later I get off at the switch and pull the train passed me (it was a rear end pickup) all without stopping once.  It's easier on the engineer and we preserve our air brakes and it's better train handling than coming to a full stop and starting again, and it saves fuel and brake shoes. Then, I rode the shove into the yard with no switches against me, thus one continuous move and right before we came to a joint I hopped off so that we would not have to stop for me to get off.  Without the recent rule change, this entire process would have either required  A) stopping multiple times to line switches and allowing the conductor to get off. or B) letting the conductor off once so that he can walk an extra half mile on the ballast lining switches and protecting the shove.  Either way is not ideal. 

Think smart, not hard.  There is an old saying that if a terminal manager wants a crew to get it done in the most efficient way possible, tell them that it's their "go home" move.  Trainman are lazy and they will figure out the easiest and most efficient way to get it done out of pure laziness and moving equipment is just another tool at our disposal.

As for the training....... What training?  A manager stood in the depot and watched me get on and off 3 times.  He gave me a card saying that I was "trained" and I signed a paper saying that I was trained, so that If I'm stupid about it, I knew what I was doing when I try to sue the company.  It's actually quite reasonable and any company would do it.  But then of course, I have nearly 14 years, and I never completely stopped doing it.  
I really wish that they would give good quality training to the new guys that have never done it.  But, of course, UP won't and that's a tragedy.  

Maybe they should watch this great old classic movie on it!  It's far better training than anything the UP offers today!      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rx57jVGfso&t=253s

That was a great movie--the old time really took some hard hits, but kept on going!

I remember running for locked switches, key in hand, more than a few times. Not recommended. Or throwing the switch just as the (slow moving) loco steps passed over the points.

Got on & off cars & locos thousands of times, never got hurt. Was careful about my knees & always looked first, good grip, etc.

Done safely, getting on/off moving equipment isn't a problem.

My worse RR injuries were getting tiny metal slivers in my eye, twice. Probably from hump retarders.