Western Railroad Discussion > Ties

What is a typical lifespan of a wooden tie?

Posted from Android

IIRC, it’s 15 years.

BobE

Posted from iPhone

On a cash strapped shortline, until a derailed car shreds it.

When I was a member of the Railway Tie Association, we figured 30 years for a properly treated (creosoted) wooden tie. Your mileage may vary!

Bruce

Depends on a lot of factors,rail  traffic, weather, soil conditions. 15-25 about right

and then another 10 to 15 years (depending on quality) planted in a ranchers fence line.  Unless the tie was a hardwood tie pulled up when the Milwaukee RR cashed in, those ties have been planted close to 40 years now and show no sign of giving up.  Not the easiest tie to pound a nail into though.  When we picked up ties in the "70's" off a BN line I was seeing date nails back to 1952.  BNSF wood ties are considerably more heavy now than back then.

The #1s that are end plated with the spike holes plugged during reman are said to be good for at least another
ten years. There's a good market for remanufactured ties, they don't all end up as fence posts.

Out 

We got used ties from NS. They told us to take what we want, but they will ignore our taking of the used ties.
We flipped them over and installed them, using the unused side of the tie. Should be good for many years of service on our railroad with its low demands.

Posted from iPhone

In warm, wet climates, 15 to 20 years, and in arid regions, 30 years is to be expected.
Recently tie treatments have begun to include borate infusion  to further retard decay. 
Because borate is water soluble, the tie need a second treatment of the traditional oil/creosote on the exterior so they are maybe $ 6.00 more per tie.
But borate treated ties do last an extra 6-8 years. 
It become a business decision: invest more now to get a payback in 15-25 years or purchase the cheapest ties you can get for this year?
 

Tie life is dependent upon type of wood used in the tie, drainage, weather environment, level/quality of tie treatment during "manufacturing", and tonnage carried over the ties. The wood used in wood ties are classified as either hardwood (example oak) or softwood (example pine). Drainage around ties is a factor of ballast type, depth, and size as well as sub-ballast conditions. Weather is self explainatory, except both extremely dry and extemely wet weather can degrade ties quickly. Tie treatment, as a function of how well the creosote penetrates (or is allowed to penetrate is also a major factor. End plating is also important. I have had to purchase millions of dollars of ties in my career, usually by the railcar. Tie life averages 10-50 years, in general. I have some ties on one railroad that date from 1920-1930 that are perfectly fine. On other railroads, I have seen ties from 2000 that look like a pile of mulch. In tie purchasing, you get what you pay for: A cheap softwood tie with moderate creosote penetration might last 15-20 years while a hardwood tie might last 25-30 years, all other variables held constant.

Posted from iPhone

I’ve recently found a tie on the BNSF mainline in Northern CA that still has a 1957 date nail. Tie still looks solid.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

There are sections of track with ties dated with 27-35 still in use on the Fillmore & Western on the Santa Paula Branch. 

That's amazing considering that used to be a secondary main line.

Out 

Got to wondering price per tie, found this, 

Out of date but still interesting

[url=http://iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/HerwrGIJ​e-8?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]Railroad Tie Cost and Pricing

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's amazing considering that used to be a
> secondary main line.
>
> Out 

Well, they don't go by the date nails to decide when to replace ties. They go by the actual condition of the ties.
So a tie on lightly used track in an area with good drainage might last a lot longer then one on a heavily used track in a wet area.

There are four things to inspect to see if the tie fails the FRA rule book, and it is very lenient.
It can be split but if ballast is coming up through the spit it is failed
It can not be broken in it back, another word center cracked up and humping. Failed
It can be plate cut (or rail cut) down into the tie but is not failed until the cut exceeds 40% of the original thickness of the tie.
    That is a lot of cut, and wear and could be 2.5" of a deep canyon before it is failed.
But the most importation inspection is to not find more that 1/2" of lateral movement and it would be a failed tie.  Nothing to do about holding spikes.
Also, here is where you can find some expensive bad ties.  If you have a curve that is 57.25" gage which is common, it is because of working wider than the 56.5" that it was originally spiked, and therefore every tie in that curve is a failed tie even if some are solid wood.  The bad wood ties would need to be replaced and every tie remaining would need to be plugged and respiked every tie to the standard gage for that curve.  One quarter inch is added for every 10 degrees of curvature.SG or NG using MCB wheels profile.

If you re-install old ties and turn the bottom up. You must plug or insert the plastic compound that will prevent water from getting back up into the interior of the tie.  They will just rot away very much faster if you do not prepare that old tie.

When spiking a tie, the spike is never driven to touch the base rail, as 1/16" is the required space between spike head and rail.  A spike is not to hold the rail down but to prevent lateral movement of the rail.  Rail anchors are used to prevent rails from traveling and not a spike on a tie, and the tie can be twisted if stuck to the rails that moves. When driving a spike with air gun, the sound will change and immediately stop.  When driving by hand, do not kill the spike with that extra hit, and maintain the space above the rail. A bent head of a spike is a major failure of the spiker, and spike will not do its job.
A loose spike has nothing to do with the legal status of a tie, just review the 4 inspections above.

Different classed of track for speed require different number of good ties per rail length.
Class 1  One Good tie at each joint, and one between them
Class 2  One good tie at each joint and two good ties between any of the good joint ties.
That can leave a number of old failed ties still legally in track. 
You can not exceed 53" between any good tie in either ot those classes of track.
One of the two ties at a joint can be poor but it would sure be better to have both joint ties in good shape regardless of it not being legally failed.
Good Luck,  



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/20 12:49 by PlyWoody.

BNSF uses this to grade ties.

https://georgetownrail.com/Track-Inspection/Aurora