Western Railroad Discussion > Work on PE Santa Ana branch

Drove by the old PE Santa Ana branch yesterday and they were doing major work on the bridge over the Santa Ana river and the ROW. What’s going on ? Are they tearing it down or rebuilding it for something ? Have there been any studies of rehabbing the line for anything like Metrolink, light rail, or A bike path ? I know sections of it have been put to other use but A lot of it still exists.

Do you mean the West Santa Ana branch that went through Cypress, La Palma, Artesia, Cerritos, Bellfoower, Paramount, etc.?

Wasn't that going to be a bus corridor?

Out

Why did the government allow SP to abandon this line in 1983?

They are building light rail/ streetcar line between the Santa Ana Regional Transportation Center (Amtrak/Metrolink station) to Garden Grove (Harbor Blvd a s Westminster). A new bridge is being constructed next to the old tress bridge over the Santa Ana River. From West Santa Ana to Garden Grove the transit line uses the former PE right of way.

The SP claimed that there was not enough business on the Stanton - West Santa Ana line to justify it remaining in service in 1978. West Santa Ana had a lumber yard, team track and beverage distributor in the years before it was abandoned, but not sure if they were active when the line was shut down. Garden Grove once had citrus packing houses and a feed company plus a team track and perhaps some other industries at one time.

Cliff



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/20 10:51 by MyfordBrowning.

At least it's rail and not bus.

Out 

Here are two pictures
1. Santa Ana PE Bridge with a new bridge on the northside.
2.  Westminster Ave sbridge at the west end of the line.


Chris

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There are homes built on the right of way in Watts. Can the county tear these down to replace the track?

Sp1110 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are homes built on the right of way in
> Watts. Can the county tear these down to replace
> the track?

Thats LA County. Work is being done in Orange County.
And no, I don't beleive they can tear down those house's.

Posted from Android

Sp1110 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are homes built on the right of way in
> Watts. Can the county tear these down to replace
> the track?

That would be former ROW, no longer owned or controlled by a railroad. 

I'm doing this from memory so no net, but I seem to remember that after an all rail project was dismissed that OC had decided on a busway
at their end and the North end was no longer considered. At that point the ROW became surplus and much was sold. This is some time ago
so might be totally wrong.

Out 

MyfordBrowning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The SP claimed that there was not enough business
> on the Stanton - West Santa Ana line justify it
> remaining in service in 1978. West Santa Ana had a
> lumber yard, team track and beverage distributor
> in the years before it was abandoned, but not sure
> if they were active when the line was shut down.
> Garden Grove one had citrus packing houses and a
> feed company plus a team track and perhaps some
> other industries at one time.
>
> Cliff

I was an ATM for the SP in Anaheim between 1973 and 1977.

There were three customers left between North Santon and West Santa Ana in 1977.  One was Garden Grove Lumber at Garden Grove, another was Hammond Lumber, about a mile East on the North side of the track.  The last was a chemical company right at the end of track where the diagonal used to straighten out onto 4th street.

GG Lumber got a car of lumber a week, Hammond got a car of redwood about every two weeks.  The chemical company had about ten tank cars on spot, but only got a loaded car in about every three weeks.  This resulted in the Bellflower Local going to Garden Grove with one car of lumber, and coming back light.  Two or three days later, the Bellflower went back to GG light to get the one empty.

The agent at Anaheim and I watched the inbound manifests for Garden Grove cars out of Bakersfield, and when one showed up we would not have the Bellflower go to GG for an empty, but would wait for a day or two to spot a load at the same time.

The bottom line in 1977 was that North Stanton-West Santa Ana was a money losing situation without considering track maintenance, signal maintenance, and the fact that there is an electric meter at every crossing to run the signals and keep the batteries charged that has to be paid for, before we even think about property taxes.
G

Thanks G for the actual freight traffic still on the line at the end, I knew it was very light. One note on the earlier post, the comment about Garden Grove was historical information and did not indicate traffic at the end of operation on the line. The typo 'one' when I wanted to write once may have confused my post.

The right of way still owner of the transportation agency in Orange County and most of It in LA County by its agency. They have proposals for possible light rail use between Paramont and Santa Ana with other routings beyond to Los Angeles.

cliff
ExSPCondr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MyfordBrowning Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > The SP claimed that there was not enough
> business
> > on the Stanton - West Santa Ana line justify it
> > remaining in service in 1978. West Santa Ana had
> a
> > lumber yard, team track and beverage
> distributor
> > in the years before it was abandoned, but not
> sure
> > if they were active when the line was shut
> down.
> > Garden Grove one had citrus packing houses and
> a
> > feed company plus a team track and perhaps some
> > other industries at one time.
> >
> > Cliff
>
> I was an ATM for the SP in Anaheim between 1973
> and 1977.
>
> There were three customers left between North
> Santon and West Santa Ana in 1977.  One was
> Garden Grove Lumber at Garden Grove, another was
> Hammond Lumber, about a mile East on the North
> side of the track.  The last was a chemical
> company right at the end of track where the
> diagonal used to straighten out onto 4th street.
>
> GG Lumber got a car of lumber a week, Hammond got
> a car of redwood about every two weeks.  The
> chemical company had about ten tank cars on spot,
> but only got a loaded car in about every three
> weeks.  This resulted in the Bellflower Local
> going to Garden Grove with one car of lumber, and
> coming back light.  Two or three days later, the
> Bellflower went back to GG light to get the one
> empty.
>
> The agent at Anaheim and I watched the inbound
> manifests for Garden Grove cars out of
> Bakersfield, and when one showed up we would not
> have the Bellflower go to GG for an empty, but
> would wait for a day or two to spot a load at the
> same time.
>
> The bottom line in 1977 was that North
> Stanton-West Santa Ana was a money losing
> situation without considering track maintenance,
> signal maintenance, and the fact that there is an
> electric meter at every crossing to run the
> signals and keep the batteries charged that has to
> be paid for, before we even think about property
> taxes.
> G

Part of the branch in Stanton has been connected to the SP Huntington Beach Branch and is used as a spur to store UP maintenance equipment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/20 14:37 by Sp1110.

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> Part of the branch in Stanton has been connected
> to the SP Huntington Beach Branch and is used as a
> spur to store UP maintenance equipment.

Actually it is the stub of the Los Alamitos line which was built by the SP along with the line that went to Westminster.  The PE built from the Newport Beach line at Huntington Beach North to the end of the SP track at Westminster in the 1910s or 20s.  The SP Los Alamitos Branch turned off of the line to Westminster, and had nothing to do with the former PE West Santa Ana Branch.  The Los Alamitos branch was shortened up after a derailment showed that the last mile and a half had all bad ties that would have to be replaced to be kept in service.  The only customer left at the end was Orange County lumber, so the UP paid for their move to Rialto on the former PE Baldwin Park branch line.  This is now the only customer on that line.
G   

If you look at Google Maps you can see that a very short section (10 ft.) of the PE West Santa Branch has been connected to the SP Huntington Beach Line approximately 400 feet east of Stanton Wye. That portion of the PE branch must still be owned by UP.

Another section of the branch is still in service in Paramount. It is connected to the San Pedro, Los Angeles, and Salt Lake Railroad main line. The diamond crossing the LA&SL main has been removed so the PE line can no longer be used as a through route.

The FRA will never allow light rail to run on this line north of Somerset Blvd. because there are still freight trains on the track in Paramount. The FRA forbids the sharing of light rail tracks with heavy rail trains. As long as the rails remain paved over on Somerset Blvd. you can theoretically run a light rail train from Bellflower all the way to the end of the branch.

The only two options north of Bellflower are buses and Metrolink. I don’t think Amtrak is interested in this line since the Pacific Surfliner already serves Santa Ana via the ATSF National City Line.



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/20 14:26 by Sp1110.