Western Railroad Discussion > Train Ran a Red Signal at Big Sandy?

An unusual movement about 8:25 this evening on the Big Sandy, Texas, camera. 

A Union Pacific train passed a double-stop signal. It then slowed to a crawl, perhaps 1 mph, and then speeded up again.

What was going on?

[There was an insect crawling on the lens cover.]

 

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I AM NOT familiar with UP Operating rules BUT I would guess that the train had permission from dispatch to run the signal after slowing.  ×   

Gandy,

That's what I thought but the train seemed to go through the signal at speed and didn't slow until the lead loco had passed. 


gandydancer4 Wrote:
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> I AM NOT familiar with UP Operating rules BUT I
> would guess that the train had permission from
> dispatch to run the signal after
> slowing.  ×   

The dispatcher probably talked them by the signal.  It could have been because there was a train further ahead in the same block, a switch open in the block (or a bad indication on the dispatcher's screen).  It could have also been an operations test by local management coordinating with the dispatcher, doing a "stop test."  Another reason, in mountainous areas, for getting talked by an absolute signal is because there may have been a slide fence that has been actuated by a rock slide (or a clumsy elk breaking a wire while trying to hop over the wires).  Some areas have detectors that might trigger a red signal if there is a flood or if potentially unstable land under the track "slumps" into a river.  There may have also been a broken rail in the block between that signal and the next one.

Doesn't the signal govern movement on the track closer to the camera? Look at the Google Maps picture. There aren't even insulated joints on the track at the location the train is on. But there are on the connector track from the Pine Bluff Sub.

https://goo.gl/maps/dYr8KFNvzK8W7dmK8



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/20 19:23 by ble692.

MSE Wrote:
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> That's what I thought but the train seemed to go
> through the signal at speed and didn't slow until
> the lead loco had passed. 

They could have been stopped out of frame.  The frame's edge is very close to the signal.

Somtimes, but not oftern, a proceed on red order is issed by a Fort Worth BNSF Chicago Sub. (racetrack) dispatcher.

While there is a gap between the two Big Sandy cameras, as far as I can tell the train never stopped. As mentioned above, it did slow to a crawl once past the signal. 

Is this a case of left hand signals.  Seems to me there is a green signal down the track on the left side of the track the train is on.

While I thought it was a signal the first few times I viewed this camera, it is not. 

This is not a real rule but I found that with modern signals, the ladder is opposite of the track it controls. At least on the UP.

From watching the camera a bit I thought that signal mast controlled the interchange track from the Pine Bluff Sub to the Minneola Sub.  ATCS shows a signal there and another one just east of the diamond on the T&P track.  When trains come off the Pine Bluff west they will get a green there, before the switch.  

That would seem to be the case as the green signal beyond the red is for the train crossing over, the double red
would be the protecting signal for the right hand track.

Out 

You are probably right but it would appear the signal is mis-alighned. It does not seem to be exactly aligned with the track closest to the camera. 

So anyways, it depends on the authority of the territory that the train is running on.

In PTC you can be remotely be given authority to pass in CTC. Some tracks are bon-controlled signals, etc.

Watching a snippet in time from cameras on the internet with unknown surroundings and without context - is pure speculation and conjecture.

MSE Wrote:
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> You are probably right but it would appear the
> signal is mis-alighned. It does not seem to be
> exactly aligned with the track closest to the
> camera. 

Agree it does look that way.  If you go to Google street view it looks like the bottom signal is aimed more down the T&P while the top single light is aimed towards the interchange track.  All I've seen is the top aspect green with something coming PB west.  

ble692 Wrote:
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> Doesn't the signal govern movement on the track
> closer to the camera? Look at the Google Maps
> picture. There aren't even insulated joints on the
> track at the location the train is on. But there
> are on the connector track from the Pine Bluff
> Sub.
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/dYr8KFNvzK8W7dmK8

The aerial makes it much clearer. The home signal for the track the UP is on is back behind the diamond. The signal in the image is for the track to its right. I had the closest I ever want to have of a cornfield meet because of signal placement like that. They got stopped about five feet apart.

TAW

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gandydancer4 Wrote:
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> I AM NOT familiar with UP Operating rules BUT I
> would guess that the train had permission from
> dispatch to run the signal after
> slowing.  ×  

There is no such thing as run the signal after slowing. A train must have stopped before the dispatcher can authorize it to pass a signal indicating stop.

TAW

OK, just saw a westbound come off Cotton Belt and onto the T&P.  Was wrong it's the bottom aspect that goes green for the movement, the top single aspect, not sure what that controls.  But the signal doesn't look like it controls westbound moves off T&P main. 

TAW Wrote:
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> I had the closest I ever want to
> have of a cornfield meet because of signal
> placement like that. They got stopped about five
> feet apart.
>
> TAW

As you no doubt understand, the 50 feet of signal cable that was saved
by doing a sloppy job came out of a different budget than the one
that will cover the future wreck clean up.